Julie Samuels, executive director at Engine, and Mike Masnick, founder of Techdirt, dive into the ever-evolving game of tech policy. They discuss how only big companies can navigate bad policies, leaving startups at a disadvantage. The conversation touches on the shift from traditional lobbying to grassroots activism, the need for patent reform, and the complexities of cybersecurity legislation. They also explore data privacy challenges in Europe, the gig economy's impact on employment law, and the crucial role of immigration in fostering tech talent.