John Speed Meyers, head of Chainguard Labs and expert in technology policy, joins Paul Gibert, a research scientist specializing in open source software security, to discuss the pressing challenges of securing open source software. They delve into the risks posed by vulnerabilities and the far-reaching impacts of incidents like Log4J. The conversation emphasizes the need for robust security measures, the evolving liability debate, and the importance of collaboration among developers to enhance software safety. Together, they advocate for transitioning to safer programming practices.