In this engaging discussion, Zen teacher Charlotte Joko Beck shares her transformative journey and accessible approach to Zen practice, while Zen sensei John Pulleyn adds his insights. They tackle the importance of embracing personal suffering as a path to true growth and freedom. The conversation highlights life as a hidden jewel, urging sincere self-exploration through Zen to uncover deeper joy. They also discuss the journey from self to no-self, emphasizing the need for patience and compassion in navigating life's challenges.