Former CIA counterintelligence chief James Olson emphasizes the need for increased double agent operations to penetrate enemy spy services. Former senior U.S. cybercrime official Chris Painter discusses the rash of ransomware attacks by Russia-based malefactors and the need for incentives to address computer security vulnerabilities. The podcast also explores the ongoing threat posed by China's espionage activities, assesses the competence of different intelligence services, and discusses counterintelligence in the cyber realm.