Sam Harris speaks with George Packer about American democracy and authoritarianism. They discuss Packer's article "America's Zombie Democracy," the erosion of democratic institutions, the Justice Department's independence, Congressional dysfunction, the weaponization of the military, Trump's unprecedented corruption, the public's failure to recognize democratic collapse, shamelessness as political superpower, the role of hypocrisy, potential threats to the 2026 midterm elections, hyperpartisanship and the loss of shared reality, the mainstreaming of white nationalism on the right, the damage done by wokeness and identity politics on the left, the Epstein files as a potential breaking point for MAGA, the post-Trump Republican landscape, wealth inequality and economic pain as catalysts for change, the role of status in American politics, social media's toxic effects on discourse, and other topics.

George Packer is an award-winning author and staff writer at The Atlantic. His books include The Unwinding: An Inner History of the New America (winner of the National Book Award), The Assassins’ Gate: America in Iraq, and Our Man: Richard Holbrooke and the End of the American Century (winner of the Hitchens Prize and the Los Angeles Times Book Prize for biography). He is also the author of two novels and a play, and the editor of a two-volume edition of the essays of George Orwell. His latest novel is The Emergency.

Website: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374614720/theemergency/

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Griffin McElroy

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