Ebrahim Rasool, former South African ambassador to the U.S. and a veteran politician, discusses his country’s stance on Gaza amidst serious allegations against Israel. He argues that claims of ethnic cleansing are nuanced, highlighting complexities around refugee status. Emily Schrader, an Israeli-American journalist, counters these assertions, questioning South Africa's complicity and challenging the narrative of coercion. The conversation delves into moral limits of resistance, the role of international pressure, and the pressing need for discourse around a ceasefire.