Dr. Zeke Emanuel, an architect of the Affordable Care Act, Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist, and Donald McNeil Jr., a former NY Times health reporter, dive into the implications of RFK Jr.'s controversial nomination for the Department of Health and Human Services. They explore the rise of COVID denialism, the complex anti-vaccine movement, and the impact of political beliefs on public health strategies. The conversation emphasizes the necessity of science-based decision-making amidst a shifting landscape of health policies.

Former New York Times global health reporter Donald G McNeil Jr. discusses COVID-19 origins, the need for a Pentagon for Disease, and his own controversial departure from The New York Times.