Daniel Görtz, a political philosopher and key figure in metamodernism, joins to discuss his work, '12 Much Better Rules for Life.' He unpacks the value of friendship in counteracting modern life's transactional nature. Görtz emphasizes embracing life's messiness over the pursuit of peak experiences. The conversation navigates the balance between persistence and the art of quitting, stressing its role in personal growth. They also tackle the complexities of happiness, victim culture, and the quest for justice, offering new insights into societal dynamics.