Chris Lu, a recent Oxford DPhil graduate specializing in meta-learning, and Robert Tjarko Lange, a TU Berlin PhD candidate focused on evolutionary algorithms, join forces to discuss innovative approaches to AI. They explore how language models can automate algorithm discovery and enhance training processes. The conversation dives into the interplay of human creativity and AI, addressing challenges like infinite regress in loss functions and the implications of evolutionary optimization. Together, they envision a future where AI systems co-create alongside researchers.