In a thought-provoking discussion, Karl Friston, the inventor of the free energy principle; Chris Buckley, a neural computation expert; and Maxwell Ramstead, a leading scholar, explore deep connections between the free energy principle and enactivism. They debate cognitive structures, the role of goals in systems, and operational closure concepts. Maxwell highlights how generative models capture organizational dependencies, while Chris shares his journey from skepticism to advocacy for FEP. Together, they tackle philosophical divides, embodying the intricacies of cognition and autonomy.