Cecile Fabre, a political philosopher and Senior Research Fellow at All Souls College, Oxford, dives into the moral complexities of espionage. She distinguishes between the glamorized fiction of spying and the stark ethical realities intelligence agents face. The discussion highlights the necessity of ethical guidelines in espionage, exploring the balance between individual morality and legal obligations. Fabre emphasizes the importance of precise language in ethical debates and the implications of surveillance technology on our understanding of morality and secrecy.