C.K. Westbrook, an environmentalist and author based in D.C., dives into the psychoanalytic study of political leadership in the U.S. and Russia. The discussion reveals how historical lies have eroded public trust and the urgent need for truth-telling in governance. They examine pivotal events like the atomic bombings and the influence of intergenerational trauma on leaders like Putin. The conversation underscores the importance of epistemic trust and highlights how understanding psychological profiles can illuminate contemporary political dynamics.