Jon Meacham and Annette Gordon-Reed discuss Thomas Jefferson's complex legacy, exploring his presidency, the Declaration of Independence, and his ownership of slaves. They also delve into Jefferson's political tactics, his impact on America, his interest in science and exploration, and his contradictory stance on slavery.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." Those words, penned by Thomas Jefferson 246 years ago, continue to inspire many Americans. And yet they were written by a man who owned hundreds of enslaved people, and fathered six children by an enslaved woman. This week, as we prepare to mark Independence Day in the United States, we revisit our 2018 conversation with Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Annette Gordon-Reed. We talk about the contradictions in Jefferson's life — and how those contradictions resonate in our own lives. If you like this show, be sure to check out our other work, including our recent episode about the power of subtraction.Also, check out our new podcast, My Unsung Hero! And if you'd like to support our work, you can do so at support.hiddenbrain.org. 

Join Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Annette Gordon-Reed as she shares her lifelong connection to Juneteenth and its significance in the fight for civil rights. She discusses her motivation behind writing 'On Juneteenth' and reflects on how this year’s celebrations felt unique. Annette emphasizes the importance of preserving the holiday’s history and traditions amidst commercialization while advocating for ongoing engagement with civil rights issues, particularly in relation to voting and community support.