In a captivating discussion, Andrew Townley, a seasoned SABSA consultant, clarifies the practical implications of the SABSA framework despite initial skepticism from hosts Drew and Allan. He argues that SABSA transcends academic theory, focusing on achieving tangible business outcomes. The conversation explores its relevance to modern engineering practices, the challenges of adoption, and the integration of risk management. Andrew also highlights the influence of Russell Ackoff, linking systems theory to practical business solutions, leaving the hosts eager to learn more about SABSA.