In this conversation, Andrea Hiott, a philosopher and cognitive scientist, teams up with Tim Logan, an education leader, to explore innovative educational approaches. They discuss the transformative potential of 4E cognitive science, emphasizing embodied and relational learning over traditional, static methods. Andrea criticizes outdated, memory-centric views and advocates for a dynamic, co-creative process in education. They also highlight the importance of love and attention in reshaping learning, urging educators to embrace relationality while maintaining necessary boundaries.