Factually! with Adam Conover

The REAL History of Gender with Dr. Kit Heyam

Dec 27, 2023

Dr. Kit Heyam, an expert in the history of gender, discusses the misconceptions around the surge of young people identifying as trans. They explore gender expressions throughout history, from Samoa's four genders to India's hijras. The importance of understanding gender beyond the Western construct is emphasized, as well as the emotional significance of representation in history. The complex relationships among gender, societal roles, and colonization are explored, highlighting the need for diverse narratives and the agency of individuals. The podcast also delves into the challenges of writing about colonized cultures and criticizes the binary understanding of biological sex.

01:02:38

Episode guests

Kit Heyam

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Quick takeaways

Throughout history, humans have expressed gender concepts outside the binary, such as the Hijras in India and the four recognized genders in the Pacific Island of Samoa.

Gender is not solely determined by one's biological sex or fixed identity, as exemplified by the stories of Thomas/Thomasine Hall and Njinga, challenging societal roles and expectations.

Understanding historical figures and cultures on their own terms is crucial to appreciate and learn from diverse gender expressions throughout history, embracing empathy, open-mindedness, and discomfort with ambiguity.

Deep dives

Gender nonconformity has a long history

The podcast episode discusses the misconception that being transgender or gender nonconforming is a recent phenomenon. It emphasizes that throughout history, humans have expressed gender concepts outside the binary. Examples are given, such as the four genders recognized in the Pacific Island of Samoa and the Hijras in India, who have been acknowledged since the 8th century BC. The podcast highlights the need to understand and appreciate the diverse ways gender has been understood and experienced throughout different cultures and times.

Challenging the homogenization of historical figures

02:26

Complex Stories of Trans People in History

01:28

Challenges of Writing Non-Western History

01:04

The Racist Origins of Binary Biological Sex

00:33

Introduction

3min

Challenging Notions of Transgender History

17min

Understanding the History of Gender and Its Relevance Today

5min

Exploring Ann Lister's Complex Identity

10min

The Emotionally Fraught Battle for Representation in History

2min

Gender Nonconformity and Societal Roles in History

10min

Challenging Gender Norms: Complexity and Nuance

16min

Wrapping Up and Tour Dates

2min

In recent years, the number of young people identifying as trans has doubled. However, a common misinterpretation arises, suggesting that this surge implies a new phenomenon of being trans or gender non-conforming. Modern Western culture has strongly insisted on the conventional belief that the gender binary is natural, fostering the false assumption that human culture and history have always revolved around this binary. In reality, humans worldwide have expressed gender concepts outside that binary as far back as the 8th century BC. This week, Adam engages in conversation with Dr. Kit Heyam, author of "Before We Were Trans: A New History of Gender," to explore gender expressions of the past and move beyond the limited modern view of gender. Find Kit's book at factuallypod.com/books

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