21 Hats Podcast Straight Talk About ESOPs and Co-Ops and EOTs, Oh My!
Jul 8, 2025
John Abrams, a seasoned founder, author, and advocate for sustainable business practices, joins Mel Gravely and Jay Goltz, leaders in the construction industry, for an engaging discussion on employee ownership models. They explore strategies to avoid disastrous private equity sales and share insights on why there are so few employee-owned businesses. The trio dives into the nuances of ESOPs versus co-ops, addressing both potential benefits and challenges. Their candid conversation highlights the importance of succession planning while keeping business values intact.
AI Snips
Chapters
Books
Transcript
Episode notes
John Abrams' Worker Co-op Journey
- John Abrams converted South Mountain into a worker co-op in response to employees wanting a greater stake in their careers.
- The company grew from $1.5 million to over $20 million in revenue, thriving under this model for 40 years.
Worker Co-ops Need Leadership
- Worker co-ops do not operate by voting on everything; leadership remains crucial.
- Clear division between management decisions and owner policy decisions makes the model viable.
Worker Co-op with Heavy Assets
- John is currently working with a construction company converting to a worker co-op with assets and bank loans.
- Employees assume financial responsibilities, enabling founders to fully retire in five years.
