In Silicon Valley, it's hard to overstate the significance of Jaron Lanier. He coined the term "virtual reality" and founded the first virtual reality company in the '80s. You may recognise him as the dreadlocked polymath in the The Social Dilemma, Netflix's documentary about the harms of social media.

Today, he is a leader of a dissident group of tech geniuses who believe the hype of A.I. is overblown, in both its capabilities and its risks. While many of his colleagues speak of artificial intelligence as a mythological turning point for civilisation, he argues -- in books and in a series of groundbreaking essays in The New Yorker magazine -- that A.I. is just a tool. It's a mindless auto-complete bot.

Lanier's humanism is laudable and infectious. But Josh can't quite grok his dismissiveness of artificial intelligence. In this chat, Jaron is as frustrated by this impasse as Josh is. Enjoy the resulting to-and-fro.

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Jaron Lanier: "There's No Such Thing as Artificial 'Intelligence'"