The Quiet Light Podcast What 10 Years in the Brokerage Industry Taught Bryan O'Neil
Today we welcome Bryan O'Neil, one of our very own, to discuss owning and running a brokerage firm and being a top advisor to buyers and sellers. Based in the United Kingdom, Bryan is joining us today from Costa Rica, where he is living the true traveling entrepreneur lifestyle. His career has had him in the mix for over 10 years and he has seen a lot from the many angles of the acquisition process.
Before joining Quiet Light, Bryan was one of the original co-founders and a director of Flipping Enterprises, as well as a co-founder and the concept creator of Centurica – the world's first website due diligence agency. He was also a consultant at Flippa.com and was responsible for the launch of their brokerage service, Deal Flow. Today we tap into his wealth of experience as an entrepreneur and pioneer in the internet brokerage industry.
Episode Highlights:
- What Bryan finds exciting when starting with a client and the signals that he looks for right away in a potential transaction.
- The importance of paying attention to the soft side of a deal and the personalities brokers are working with.
- We discuss the burnout rate for the online business broker.
- How brokers develop a sixth sense for what is going to be a smooth deal and how hard or easy it will be to work with a seller or buyer.
- How the relationship between the owner and the prospective buyer is one of the most important aspects of a transaction.
- The broker's valuation is merely the prediction based on the marketplace.
- Which niches that Bryan gravitates towards in his work.
- What red flags brokers look for in transactions.
- One thing that buyers don't look at enough in the valuation process.
- Why buyers also need to look beyond the transaction.
- Something buyers focus on that is sometimes an impediment to the transaction progress.
Joe: So Mark, I understand you had a conversation with one of our very own who probably has more experience than most of us combined in terms of owning brokerage firms and being a top advisor as well.
Mark: Yeah within Quiet Light Brokerage I am obviously the most experienced broker since I've started the company. I've been doing this for ten and a half years now but Bryan and I started off our conversation just kind of reminiscing on his career arc. When you take a look at our little industry that we have here within this kind of online business brokerage [inaudible 00:01:27.0] when you take a look at the companies that have sprung up and really kind of made their mark on the industry you typically see that Bryan has been somewhere right in the mix of all of those companies in that startup phase. So he's been at this just as long as I have. He's been doing this for about ten years now and his resume is impressive.
Joe: It really is and he's been the easiest to work with because he really doesn't need any help which is pretty great given the level of skill and experience he has. But it's funny with Bryan it seems like every time we talk to him he's in a different country. You know he lives over in the UK but I think the last call we had he was actually in Cuba and working really literally from anywhere in the world like the true lifestyle entrepreneur. Did he get into specifics about the companies that he's started that are well known in this industry?
Mark: He did. Yeah absolutely and people that listen to this you guys are [inaudible 00:02:22.7] of companies we talked about the companies. I'll save it for that. And by the way he was in Costa Rica now when we actually did this interview. So he was doing it from his hotel room and asked me in advance "Do I need to shave, is this going to be video?" I said "Yeah Bryan you should shave it and you know comb that hair and all that." So he did and the audio … because it's a hotel room the audio is a little bit echoey. I'll apologize for that but … and then if you're like me I can't listen to accents very well. We make fun of Bryan for his British accent all the time. But what he has and his observations in the industry and he's seen a lot from a lot of different angles. And so in this one of the things that I want to tease for you guys to listen to, we talked about the things that he finds exciting when he's dealing with a client. You know that up front call and Joe you and I know about this, when we have somebody calling to us that they are starting to explore that possibility of selling you develop a really quick sense for what's going to be a good opportunity and what's not. So I wanted to see if I could kind of haul that out of him, what are some of the signals that he looks for right away that makes him go yes this is going to be a really nice client to work with.
Joe: So the signals are being not just the client but the business itself that buyers are going to be excited about is what you're talking about.
Mark: Well we talked about both and I will reveal this one thing, we talked about this so often the theme just came up again which is we also have to look at those soft sides, the personality; are you reasonable to work with. Those sort of things just naturally come up. Whenever you talk to anybody who's experienced this industry that part comes up.
Joe: Let's get right to it we don't to give too much away.
Mark: Awesome let's go.
Mark: Bryan how are you?
Bryan: Hi Mark, doing good thanks. How are you?
Mark: Good, thanks for agreeing. I know you're in Costa Rica right now right?
Bryan: Oh I am indeed. So I'm going to be here for a couple weeks and I'm actually traveling a little bit right now so yeah I'm seeing a few new places.
Mark: We have a game here at Quiet Light Brokerage which is try and guess where Bryan is in the world at any given moment and if you can get it down to the quadrant of the globe that's usually pretty good. So [inaudible 00:04:25.1] world traveler. You are our European representation for the company because you live over in England correct?
Bryan: Yeah I'm mostly based in England and [inaudible 00:04:35.5] but yeah because I'm kind of traveling quite a lot but yeah I'm keeping a base there.
Mark: I got to ask you a question completely unrelated to any of this but it seems as if British people travel a lot more than pretty much any other culture I know. It seems like just popping out to the States for a quick visit is no big deal for most British people. Is this true or am I just completely stereotyping?
Bryan: Oh I should [inaudible 00:05:04.2] of your place to Europeans in general. I mean it's probably true but the fact that we've kind of grown up that way. Because you know living in Europe … it's never really a big deal to travel to a different country because from pretty much any place in Europe … any other place in Europe you can get in a matter of hours. So like from Helsinki to Milan you would have a two and a half hour flight. So I've kind of started the traveling from quite young. Same with everybody who's grown up in Europe and then I suppose that kind of sets the mindset for later.
Mark: Right. I find that fascinating. I mean if we plan a trip to Europe, its multi month ordeal to try and plan. For you, I just find out like oh I decided to come over to the States next week or I'll be over in the States the most. I was amazed so … good to have you on this side of the globe though. Of course, even though you're down in Costa Rica I know you'll be up here in the States real soon as well so … cool. So out of the Quiet Light Brokerage team … for those listening, Bryan you've been with Quiet Light now for over a year now. A little bit more than … I think about two years now, I think-
Bryan: Yeah yeah.
Mark: A couple of years, so for those of you that are keeping track which I don't anticipate as too many but we have a number of people here with Quiet Light and the assumption is typically that Joe is the most senior, most veteran broker on the team. The reality is out of experience outside of myself, you have by far the most experience. And in some ways, you have more experience than I do at the Quiet Light team. What I'd love to do is just kind of go over your background real quick as to how you get started in this industry.
Bryan: Yeah sure. So I think we have to go like back to 2007, 2008 something like that so I think 2007 actually. So I suppose my sort of segue into this was when I first started building some fairly simple Google ads and sites and stuff like that. I think that was about … yeah even earlier actually so that must be like 12, 13 years ago. And you know I was also doing that so I had a few sites and then at one point I wanted to sell one of those sites. And it was back then there weren't really too many options because there weren't pretty much any growth [inaudible 00:07:26.7] facing an online businesses that Quiet Light started that just after that time. Most of the others started at quite a lot after this. There was, however, Flippa or what later became Flippa that kind of started emerging so it was-
Mark: It was the same platforms at the time right?
Bryan: Yeah it was like an Australian developed web forum and they started a little section that was there for people to buy and sell websites and that's what later turned into Flippa. So I found that I sold them my site and then it said hey you know there's quite a lot happening over that. And then that's got my interest and I started buying some sites. And then what I started doing this essentially back then the content of flipping sites was quite bare and profitable. So pretty much before I knew it what I started doing was I started picking up sites that could do with some quick improvements and I would do that, so I would improve those sites and I would sell them off anywhere from a couple of months later to a couple of years later. And that basically got me to a place where other people at one point started reaching out to me asking hey you know you're doing a really good [inaudible 00:08:45.5] you've got a lot of fair above listings and then you're getting good prices can you help me sell my site? Can you draft the listing copy sort of guide me through the process and so forth? I thought hey you know why not. So yeah I charged a small percentage and helped these people and that … this was myself and my business partner back then and we kind of started doing that to the extent that these at one point became the main thing. So we kind of for a long time we never really formally became website brokers, but then at one point think it must've been a year or so we did, we said hey that's a business so we better turn it into business and that's when we started a company that was then called Flipping Enterprises. Now they're called FE International. And so that was kind of the start.
Mark: Right and just to be clear so Flipping Enterprises was the original version, they've reincorporated and changed significantly since then but that was back in 2009 I would say.
Bryan: That's 2009 yeah.
Mark: Yup, okay so yeah and Quiet Light started in October 2007 if I remember right. So that was a few years later; fascinating. Okay, then you moved on from Flipping Enterprises to … which one was it? You were … I don't know you're a co-founder of Centurica and then you're also part of Flippa, which one came first?
Bryan: Centurica first. So yeah a couple years in I think that must have been 2011 or 2012 I kind of cited that I've had enough of that part of the industry for a while anyway. And at the same time I saw a need at … for sort of buyer education and due diligence services in the industry. So obviously back then the industry wasn't arguably still ease. The journey has been very very young and there aren't really many resources available and the one issue that I run into quite a lot in speaking to buyers is that they didn't have any professional to turn to when evaluating a web business to purchase. So yeah that's when myself and my two other business partners Justin Gilchrist and Kaspars Peksens started Centurica. And yeah that took of quite quickly and was really really well. I think with regard in the industry and so we built that up over the course of couple of years and at that point, I exited from Centurica first and then about I think six months later the whole company have sold to the guys who [inaudible 00:11:26.5].
Mark: Right that would be a [inaudible 00:11:28.3] over with Rhodium as well. I remember when you started Centurica, I was at Affiliate Summit East with Jason Yellowitz who was speaking at that conference. I ran into Chris Kite who was a friend of ours and he had mentioned what you guys were doing and I had heard about you before as well with Centurica. And I remember telling Chris I said these guys are absolutely insane. I would never want to do by side do due diligence for anybody due to liability issues. But I … one of the many times I've been proven wrong over the years and the companies well over the years have been a very good resource. I know that those that listen to a lot of our podcast so that we refer or recommend them a decent amount. I think [inaudible 00:12:15.5] does a really good job and is a good person. But I remember hearing about you guys at first and thinking you guys are crazy, who would actually want to be in that position of liability, but it's a good resource. And Justin Gilchrist, that's a name I remember. When he first reached out to me and I was thinking oh man just another person trying to get into the space and it turned out to be a giant in the industry. Justin if you're listening we miss you in this space, feel free to come back anytime you want. So you left there and you went on to another company within the space.
Bryan: Yeah. So from there, it came my sort of a company idea with Flippa. So I guess I got into a discussion with the guys of Flippa who back then wanted to sort of break through into the brokerage industry but with very little success thus far. So what we ended up doing was … I essentially ending up quote unquote consulting them for what was supposed to be a year, it turned out to be two and a half years. And I went there to build out their brokerage platform called Leadflow. So yeah close and short this put it that [inaudible 00:13:29.9] nicely and by now that part of the company is actually separated from Flippa. And my good friend Jamie whom I basically hired as the main guy there and the main senior broker has now taken over running Leadflow and managing it. So they've kind of spun off from Flippa but yeah that was another interesting two year career.
Mark: Yeah I get asked sometimes how large is the industry that we operate in. And I try to explain to people it's pretty small but there's good money in it. When I look at your career arc your fingerprints have been over pretty much every major ebb and flow of the industry that we're in. You've definitely been around and seen a lot of different changes and influenced a lot of the changes. I know when Flippa was starting their deal flow a lot of the brokers just out there were paying close attention because Flippa had such a large audience or has such a large audience still. And so there was a real … and so a little bit concern but also just kind of curiosity. How are they going to change from a marketplace into a brokerage? And it's fascinating to watch the changes occur over the years. And then you joined … you left the brokerage industry, I tell people when they want to come on as brokers I tell them that burnout in this space is real, it's not easy. I probably … I think the average years or the average about time before somebody is just completely frazzled was probably around five years if you're really really good. So you took a break for a while.
Bryan: Yeah I kind of. So well … not so, not really for very long but I think that at the time that I had between Leadflow and when I joined you guys was probably about half a year maybe, maybe first a two year. So there I kind of needed to … knew the break from [inaudible 00:15:24.8] to concentrate on the other stuff that I was doing … I'm then doing. This is stuff like I think that entrepreneur syndrome anting up here that I can never sit still and do one thing. So yeah that's the kind of break but yeah I thought that we would give up and get off in this industry. And it is very much a real thing and very few people can last for a long time and at the same time remain sane so yeah.
Mark: I took time off so I mean I wouldn't say I was brokering solid without any break for about eight years and then I took over a year off before I took on another client. But there's something weird about this space where it kind of becomes an addiction even after you leave-
Bryan: Yeah if you say those I can-
Mark: Yeah it is there's something just super fun about it when you actually do start doing deals and are able to help people. But then once you get into it a lot you do get burned out and Joe and I comment sometimes that you know that you're reaching that burnout stage when somebody comes to you with a fantastic business and you feel like it's a burden. Like oh please you know that makes more money and you're ah I felt that I don't want to deal with this right now.
Bryan: I think we've all been there. The highs are really high and the lows are super low once they've set. It's kind of like … but it's nice because it's a … I think it sort of evens out because I can be really burned out at some times but at the same time when I then do a deal where everything goes nice and smoothly and I worked with people who are good to work with and you know I can see that we're helping the seller, we're helping the buyer, everybody's happy with everything then that's the kind of feeling that sort of very nicely balances out the few negative experiences.
Mark: Absolutely. So I want to talk about … I want to get into that here and hopefully, this will be the real value part for people listening. You know with your or my experience combined that's 20 years of doing this and it'd be interesting for us some time to see if we could estimate what our total closed amount is between the two of us. I bet it'd be a pretty big figure there. But what I want to talk to you about you know when you're in this space of brokering and you're advising people every day it doesn't take very long before you develop a sixth sense for what's going to be a good deal and what's going to be a really difficult deal. So I want to see if we can kind of break out some of those things and I'm going to ask you this and see if you and I kind of agree on some of these points here. But I want to start with the positives, so somebody calls you out of the blue or you got a valuation requests coming through the website and you are in charge of it, you got on the phone with them, what are some things that you look for or if you hear immediately you know those signals start going off this is a great deal, this thing is going to … people are going to love this thing; what are some of those key figures or key indicators?
Bryan: Well I think sort of objective stuff aside such as you know what that business is and what their numbers are and so forth. I would say that I get really excited when I talk to a seller who's clearly easy to work with and on the same page with us. And I think I can't really quantify this to a large extent but it's just sort of the gut feeling if you will that you and I … I'm sure that you as well kind of just get even after a couple minutes into meeting somebody. And I can kind of tell that having probably spoken to over I think two, three hundred sellers in the last 10 years I've sort of developed like I said a sixth sense of being able to tell whether somebody is going to be easy to work with or difficult to work with later on in the process. And when I say that I don't really mean so much the future relationship between the owner of the business and me the broker but also that often translates into the relationship between the owner of the business and the eventual buyer of the business. And that's a super important thing because as you know Mark relationship quality if you will between the buyer and the seller is the one thing that can very easily make or break a deal and that's probably the most important thing when it comes to [inaudible 00:19:45.4] any transaction.
Mark: Yeah you know I think that that sort of intangible comes down to … at least for me, it comes down to the reasonableness that I see from somebody. And it's when we have a discussion and I want to explain where I see value in the business and maybe where I see some problems in the business you know are they absorbing that information or are they fighting me with that … with that information right? So if you say oh you know the trends on the business are kind of negative and we want to make sure that the trends are going in the right direction. If they come back immediately and say well you're not looking at the right aspects of my business in order to value it. At that point, I'm almost hearing that they're not listening to what we're saying there and just trying to fight us and trying to convince us into a higher valuation. And you know the reality is the marketplace is brutally honest. You know I could say whatever you want me to say it's not going to change that the reality of the marketplace at the end of the day. So that's sort of are they there to listen, are they there to absorb, and of course, I'm there to listen and absorb and learn the business as well. But I think it's that touch of unreasonableness that's one of the soft signals right?
Bryan: Yeah and I think this is actually the one thing that's, unfortunately, a lot of people speak to us and get wrong but we're not the people that they need to convince regarding the legend of their business because we're not paying them the money. It's our job to take the business to the market and I just set them up basically, to be honest. And contrary to the belief that some people have what we say or in what words we describe a particular business is not going to influence the valuation of the business because the vast majority acquires at far more sophisticated than that and they look beyond the [inaudible 00:21:31.9] if you will. So there is really very little we can do to influence the value of the business all we can do is reflect what the market at least came to be.
Mark: The one thing I try to explain to people is that our valuation and the valuation approach is a predictive value. And that said I had a conversation with a buyer this is probably a few months ago where they took a look at a business I was representing and looked at the valuation approach and he came back to me and said well you know I was looking at this valuation book and I think we should really be using this approach to place a valuation on the business. And of course, you know being a buyer he wanted the price lower, understandably so. And so his valuation approach significantly discounted the business and I had reply that was said that I don't care what sort of formula you use or approach you use, you can use whatever formula or approach you want, end of day we're just trying to predict the marketplace and what one buyer in that marketplace is going to be able to do or be willing to do for that business. The same thing with that on the sell side is just that. What sort of niches do you tend to like when repping a business?
Bryan: That's a really interesting question I think that's changed over the years quite significantly. And interestingly enough I think if we would to go back about five years then ironically I hated e-commerce. I really and truly hated e-commerce because it was difficult. There were always issues with stuff like transferring over tangible inventory etcetera etcetera. But that has actually changed 180 degrees and nowadays I would say that I actually have grown to like e-commerce. And if we took all of my closed deals then I think e-commerce has actually easily been the majority. And that kind of adds up with what Quiet Light is doing as well because if you look at the industry in general then you can kind of see certain soft specializations and for Quiet Light that specialization is quite easily e-commerce even though we obviously represent businesses across pretty much all business models and niches. But yeah I think e-commerce nowadays is where our collective expertise and most of my expertise lies in over the last four, five years.
Mark: That's fascinating. I know our numbers break down and just under 50% of what we do is e-commerce so that'll be a plurality, SAS comes in second; probably behind that. And then we get into the different types of sites that can really break out from there; completely unintentional. You know I didn't set out and say I'll then become have this soft specialty in e-commerce but by any means. That's fascinating. Well, let's talk a little bit about some of the things that when you're doing an initial valuation call are a kind of those warning signals or kind of those oh man this thing is going to have difficulties selling. I know for me I'm super focused on trends. Trends are probably the number one thing I would look for but I'd be interested to hear what you look at and what some of the big red flags you look out for would be.
Bryan: No absolutely I can feel them, trends are a big thing. And I think that the most common sort of warning signs that something might be off would probably be either a significant drop in revenue as of late. So if we see the business being just stable growing for a year or two years and then over the last three months you have a sudden drop in revenue then that certainly indicates that something is very likely off there. Or in the same bane if I see continuous decline over a longer period of time even if it's a slight decline then that also indicates that something might be wrong and there may be some sustainability issues with buying that particular business or the industry that the business operates in or something along those lines. And I think apart from this another thing that is a little controversial because it often results in false positivities if business books are really messy then that can be a warning sign. But also that's when we come in because it's a … that first stage is for us to determine whether that's a true warning sign or if it's just somebody who has never really paid attention to keeping clean books and running that part of the business properly. Which happens quite often because in our industry we often see businesses that have grown essentially out of hand for the owner of the business, they just started a really really small business not worrying about stuff like proper accounting and things like that. And before they knew it the business grown tenfold or a hundredfold and that part of the business has been neglected. But you know in those situations we always try to figure out what's actually going on behind the scenes and whether those things can be fixed and if it's just a case of some negligence or if it's a case that the seller is in fact trying to hide something and got to the books which we do come across I mean on the end as well.
Mark: Yeah the books obviously would … are something that we focus on first and foremost. And I think for me it's … messy books don't scare me as much. It's the overly simplified books that scare me. When I get a P&L that's only in Excel and it's a total of 15 grand lines in there I'm thinking something is not right with this.
Bryan: Yeah this happens often as well. I kind of put the two in the same bucket, maybe I shouldn't but yeah they sort of go in the same bucket because if someone has taken an hour to put down some numbers in an Excel spreadsheet and it doesn't really have anything firm up there and that can definitely issue. I actually saw a P&L just a few months ago where I noticed that for some reason all the revenue numbers were round numbers. I'm like that's not right, that it cannot be, I mean I'm listing up one client and there are you know two clients and you charge them $7,000 a month each then that just can't be the case. And then it came out that yeah I was just taking some approximates because I don't really track the actual figures so based on what I know how the month was I kind of put that down. No that doesn't really work like that. So if you want to sell your business then you have to have the exact figures and know exactly what the business has been doing. Because even if a broker exists who is happy to list the business having something like this then you came be a 100% in that you're going to run into issues the moment you have a buyer or actually before that.
Mark: Yeah round numbers and P&Ls are always a warning sign. I've never had round numbers or very very rarely. All right, I'm going to put you on the spot; I didn't prepare you for this question. But what is one thing that you think buyers need to pay more attention to that they currently don't pay attention to? Or maybe let's put it this way, out of the reports that a business could offer what do you think is one report or one thing that the buyers really don't look at that might provide more insight into the businesses that they're evaluating?
Bryan: That's a really good question I think in terms of reports I'm not sure if there is anything major about that. But I would say that I've noticed quite alarmingly that a lot of buyers don't really look beyond the actual business that they are evaluating. And when I say that what I mean is that they don't look at the industry as a whole. They don't kind of pay enough attention to the competition, to where the industry is actually going; whether the industry itself is likely going to be growing for the next five or ten years or the kind and sort of the external stuff like this. And I, myself included actually when I started buying businesses years ago then I later on noticed that I was guilty of the same thing. I was just concentrating on that particular business and the trends and the books of that business that I completely started ignoring everything else, everything that was around it. And I got burned a few times so I learned. I wish I learned before getting burned.
Mark: Yeah I think that's fantastic advice, looking beyond seeing if there's room for growth within the industry itself. I had a conversation with Jeff Hunt and asked him a similar question and he said knowing where your customers are coming from which I thought was fantastic advice. You know understanding that the process of you're looking at a business, to acquire a business and you see that it has customers, understanding fully how are these customers being acquired. So I think those two bits of information might be quite useful. Okay, so we'll bookend this and I'll have this as the last question here for our conversation. What would you say is the one bit of information you see buyers frequently look at and you think is probably not as important as they think it is?
Bryan: That's a good and very difficult question. I'd say that it doesn't happen very often but I think the reason why I say this is because over the last few days I've actually had two separate conversations in the thing where I've been asked for things like the company's liabilities financial and balance sheets and things like this. I think that's due with a little bit of misinformation. So you know exactly what I mean but just so all the listeners know, the vast majority of the deals that we do in this industry are asset purposes. Which means that what you're buying is the website, any trademarks, any Amazon accounts you name it but you're not buying the [inaudible 00:31:27.9] which means that you're not buying any liabilities, you're not buying any entities themselves, any contracts, etcetera unless they're transferred over. Which if I close because it makes things simpler and … a lot simpler to both buyers and the sellers and this often means that in terms of the information required in such due diligence as a buyer you don't have to spend your time and money making sure that corporate entity itself is in good order because that's never going to be your concern or your liability. So that's something that I've come across a few times just recently. Apart from that, I don't really think there are a lot of things that happened too often. Maybe at times getting a little bit too granular with old stuff is something that I would rather not spend that much time on. Obviously looking at … you know spot checking certain months or certain periods is something that can easily be very beneficial because if there's anything funny then the stakes will come up this way. But I wouldn't necessarily go back to 2015 or 2016 and start asking questions about why it was there a small bit in revenue in March 2016 because [inaudible 00:32:49.8] seller doesn't even remember it or if they do and if they can find out then that information is really quite irrelevant right now.
Mark: Absolutely getting to that granular detail years ago could be an absolute pit fall for buyers. And I think there's obviously buyers who wanted to protect them against risk as much as possible as do we. We want to make sure buyers are protected from risk but you can spend all your time looking for what's going to get you and then end up losing out on the big picture sometimes as well. So that part is a balanced net. Cool. Hey, this has been fun. With our team being spread out all over the country literally all over the world we don't get a whole lot of opportunities for a face to face. So this podcast and the video portion of this is an opportunity for you and I to have a face to face conversation which is always fun. And whoever is listening can either I guess benefit or suffer through that conversation. So all right any last parting words of wisdom for the listeners?
Bryan: Well not really but I think if there's anything then I'd actually like to go back with … go back to where we started off which is if I had one piece of advice over to the buyer and sellers is be a nice person, be good to work with and that's something that is always going to pay off. If you're making yourself difficult then any eventual deal is likely going to be difficult as well. But if you keep an open mind and remain realistic then likely you're going to enjoy the whole process working with us, working with the other part of the transaction and everything is going to go nice and smoothly.
Mark: Absolutely I think our listeners have heard this from us before. You know these are financial transactions but they're also human transactions.
Bryan: Exactly.
Mark: And you've got to get all parts right, cool. Bryan thank you so much for joining and yeah we'll be talking and I'm sure. Everyone that wants to reach out to Bryan you know how to contact him you can find his contact information on the site. He's got a ton of experience. So I'll offer what I offer for myself personally and that is if anybody has questions or want to run something by Bryan just reach out and it works as well. We're here to help and more than happy to talk to anybody who wants to ask us a few questions. Thanks, Bryan.
Bryan: Absolutely, my pleasure Mark.
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