The History and Ethics of the Israel-Palestine Conflict with Dr. Benny Morris
Feb 10, 2023
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Dr. Benny Morris, an expert on the Israel-Palestine conflict, discusses the history, ethics, and current politics of the conflict. They explore topics such as propaganda, the establishment of Israel as a Jewish state, the poisoning of Palestinian water supply during the 1948 war, and the motives behind Israeli settlers in the West Bank. They also discuss the power imbalance between Israel and its enemies, the debate over the policy of Aliyah in Israel, and the controversy and impact of settlements in the West Bank.
Understanding the historical context and multiple perspectives is crucial in analyzing the Israel-Palestine conflict.
The consequences of the Six-Day War in 1967 reignited Palestinian nationalism and contributed to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Israel's military strength and perception of being surrounded by a hostile Arab world contribute to the power imbalance in the conflict.
Deep dives
The Origins of the Israel-Palestine Conflict
The podcast episode discusses the origins of the Israel-Palestine conflict. The host explains that he had avoided discussing the topic previously, but felt qualified to speak about it after studying the issue and visiting Israel. He discusses the historical facts of the conflict from the late 19th century to the present, including the rise of Zionism, British rule, the UN partition plan, and the Arab-Israeli wars.
The Propaganda Trip and Palestine-Israel Conflict
The host reflects on his trip to Israel and addresses the question of whether it was a propaganda trip. He discusses the use of the term 'propaganda' and argues that it should be reserved for more extreme cases. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the historical context and multiple perspectives in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Dr. Benny Morris and Complexities of the Conflict
The host introduces Dr. Benny Morris, a historian with a unique perspective on the Israel-Palestine conflict. Dr. Morris has been both a defender of Israel and a critic of its historical war crimes. The host highlights Dr. Morris as an expert who can navigate the complexities of the topic.
The Six-Day War and Its Consequences
The podcast episode discusses the consequences of the Six-Day War in 1967. It explains that the war reignited the Palestinian nationalist cause, which had been dormant since 1949. The host also mentions the establishment of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and their impact on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Israel's missed opportunity to achieve peace
In retrospect, it is suggested that Israel should have conquered the West Bank during the 1967 war and immediately retreated, allowing the Jordanians to regain control. This could have potentially prevented Palestinian demands for statehood and sovereignty, as they would have continued living under Arab Muslim rule. However, Israel's occupation of the West Bank reignited the Palestinian nationalist cause, as they were now being ruled by non-Muslim, non-Arab Jews.
The power imbalance and casualties in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
Israel's military strength and support from the United States have led to a significant power imbalance between Israel and its neighbors. When Israel retaliates against Hamas or Hezbollah, the casualty ratio often favors Israel, resulting in a higher number of Palestinian casualties compared to Israeli casualties. This power asymmetry has led some to view Israel as the bully in the conflict. However, Israel still perceives itself as surrounded by a large, hostile Arab world that opposes its existence, which contributes to its military strength.
The topic of today's episode is the Israel-Palestine conflict. I've avoided discussing Israel on this podcast for two reasons. First, because I didn't know enough to feel qualified to weigh in on it. Second, because it may literally be the most radioactive topic on planet Earth. A tiny mistake or misplace word can cause a level of backlash that I just don't want to deal with. However, two things have changed over the past few months. I discuss these two factors in detail in the first few minutes of the episode.
I want the first half of this podcast to serve as an introduction to basic historical facts behind the conflict. If you're well versed on this topic, then you may want to skip the beginning. However, on the other hand, there is still quite a bit of interesting material there. The rest of this podcast is about the ethics and the current politics of the conflict. Who is in the right, and who is in the wrong? Is Israel an apartheid state that's oppressing a minority out of pure bigotry? Is it a colonialist, expansionist state motivated by religious belief? Or is it an embattled and legitimate nation-state surrounded by enemies that want only to survive? These are the questions that people struggle with and I brought in Dr. Benny Morris to help me answer them. Dr.Benny Morris has a unique vantage point on this issue. On the one hand, he is an Israeli Jew, and in recent years, he has become a major defender of Israel against global condemnation. On the other hand, he's probably done more than almost anyone you could name, to discover and publicize Israel's historical war crimes. He refused to serve in the Occupy West Bank Operation and was arrested as a result. His academic work on Israel is cited favorably by people like Noam Chomsky, who is all the way on the other side of the issue. Dr. Benny was at one point shunned by the Israeli academic community for being in essence "a traitor" to his people. He's one of the few people who can really claim to have battle scars from both sides of this debate.
Therefore, I thought he'd be a good person to help me weave through the complexities of the topic. I have a lot of admiration for Benny Morris, and I hope you find him as illuminating as I did.
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