Writer Joe Menn talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his most recent book, "Cult of the Dead Cow: How the Original Hacking Supergroup Might Just Save the World."

In this episode:

How Menn started writing about cybercrime; the rise and fall of Napster; his first book about hacking, “Fatal System Error”; the origins of Cult of the Dead Cow; “they’re basically good guys”; its invite-only membership and how it works; how it forced Microsoft to take security seriously; how future presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke got involved; what other CDC alumni are doing today; the state of cybercrime in 2019; the complexity of protecting yourself online; the government’s attempts to undermine encryption; the 2020 election; and what the US should do to protect its citizens.

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Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), host

Joe Menn (@josephmenn), guest

Erica Anderson (@EricaAmerica), executive producer

Eric Johnson (@HeyHeyESJ), producer

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