Losing Sight of the End of Science - John Horgan, Author, DS Pod #223
Feb 11, 2024
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Journalist and author John Horgan discusses the concept of the end of science and the limitations of human knowledge. Topics explored include the challenges of quantum physics, the evolving landscape of scientific understanding, and the potential cultural implications of the end of science. The podcast also touches on the skepticism towards the Big Bang theory and the limitations of our understanding of evolution. Humorous anecdotes and discussions about the enjoyment of work and future projects are also included.
Science has reached a phase of marginal improvements, making significant breakthroughs increasingly difficult.
Lack of communication and increasing specialization across scientific disciplines pose challenges to scientific progress.
Careerism, personal ambition, and pursuit of power and money can influence the integrity of the scientific community.
Uncertainties and mysteries persist in science, emphasizing the ongoing conversation and speculation surrounding fundamental questions.
Deep dives
The Limits of Science and the End of Science
In this podcast episode, the guest, John Horgan, discusses his book 'The End of Science' and the controversial claim that science has reached its limitations. He explains that while science has had tremendous success in uncovering profound features of the universe, such as the Big Bang Theory and quantum mechanics, he argues that it will become increasingly difficult to surpass these insights. Horgan also highlights the challenges of understanding complex theories like quantum mechanics and the increasing specialization and lack of communication across scientific disciplines. However, he also acknowledges the potential of groundbreaking developments like quantum computing in reshaping scientific understanding and possibly resolving some of the unanswered questions of quantum mechanics.
The Tension between Unestablished Problems and Established Problems
The conversation delves into the tension between making progress on established problems within scientific disciplines and tackling unestablished problems. The guest reflects on how the academic system often rewards competence without comprehension, where scientists focus on solving defined problems rather than seeking a deep understanding of nature. This phenomenon is seen in the replicative nature of writing lab reports or grants, where successful formats are copied rather than encouraging new and innovative approaches. The discussion explores the potential for new knowledge and understanding to emerge from outside traditional academic structures by identifying new problems and unexplored territories.
The Decadence of Science and the Influence of Capitalism
The conversation also touches on the decadence of science and how it can be influenced by careerism, personal ambition, and the pursuit of power and money. This discussion is heightened by the mention of scientists associating with controversial figures like Jeffrey Epstein, highlighting the challenges of maintaining moral integrity within the scientific community. The guest expresses concerns about the impact of capitalism on science and the potential loss of the pursuit of understanding as science becomes increasingly driven by practical applications and power dynamics. Despite these concerns, the conversation acknowledges the presence of individuals who are genuinely striving to understand the world and make meaningful contributions to science.
The Uncertainty and Mysteries within Science
The podcast episode concludes with reflections on the uncertainty and mysteries that persist within science. The guest discusses his exploration of quantum mechanics and how the study of quantum theory has left him more mystified than ever about the nature of reality. He questions whether a final theory or understanding of the world is even possible, emphasizing the beauty and importance of the ongoing conversation and speculation surrounding fundamental questions that may never be fully answered. The conversation also acknowledges the potential for technological advancements, like quantum computing, to advance scientific understanding and possibly resolve some of the paradoxes within quantum mechanics.
The Uncertainty of Black Body Spectrum
The podcast discusses the historical importance of black body research in astrophysics and cosmology. It highlights the distinction between the spectrum produced by heating up a solid or liquid (which is a perfect fingerprint) and the spectrum produced by heating up a gas (which consists of individual lines). This distinction was a subject of debate in the 1800s and early 1900s, especially regarding the nature of the sun as a ball of gas. It also raises concerns about the cosmic microwave background radiation, which is considered a beautiful black body spectrum but has never been replicated using gases or gaseous plasmas in laboratory experiments on Earth.
The Foundations of Cosmology: Scientific Findings or Assumptions?
The podcast explores the foundations of cosmology and how they have been built on assumptions rather than laboratory-based empirical evidence. It questions the scientific basis of black body spectrum and its application in interpreting the light from stars and cosmic microwave background radiation. It highlights the concern that cosmology, despite being a relatively new science, has formed conclusions based on assumptions that lack strong experimental backing. The podcast suggests that the uncertainties and limitations of our understanding might lead to a proliferation of theories in the future.
The Shaky Ground of the Big Bang Theory
The podcast delves into the author's doubts and concerns about the current scientific conclusions related to the Big Bang theory. It raises questions about the interpretive foundation of the theory, particularly the reliance on black body spectrum as evidence. The podcast discusses the tight but disparate projections of the cosmic microwave background radiation and the redshift of galaxies, which serve as key pieces of evidence for the Big Bang theory. It points out the potential revolutionary implications if these foundational assumptions were to be challenged or disproven.
The Playfulness and Irony in Scientific Pursuit
The podcast emphasizes the importance of maintaining a playful and ironic mindset when approaching scientific endeavors. It presents the author's perspective of finding humor and absurdity in the pursuit of understanding reality. The podcast discusses the challenges and pressures in science, journalism, and academia, such as the need for conformity, competition, and financial constraints. It explores the dynamics between science, ideology, and capitalism, which influence the current landscape of scientific discourse and media. The podcast highlights the value of remaining inquisitive, open-minded, and adaptable in the face of uncertainty and evolving knowledge.
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John Horgan is a journalist and author who has written books on quantum physics, consciousness, war, sex, attention, and mysticism. He was a columnist for Scientific American for 11 years, until they fired him for his 1995 book, The End of Science. In it, Horgan argues that increases in human knowledge have reached an asymptotic phase of marginal improvements, and the future of science is going to look a whole lot like the present. Twenty five years after publication, Horgan’s certainty about the fate of science has started to waver. Quantum physics doesn’t totally fit together, the JWST keeps finding things that don’t make any sense, and our sense of what makes a biological organism is getting constantly blown apart. In our conversation, we go through what Horgan saw that made him so confident that we were almost at the end, how the landscape has changed since the mid nineties, the areas of science that seem most likely to open a whole new world of study for generations to come, and ideas that probably aren't going anywhere, but maybe should.
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(00:00)
Go!
(00:03:26)
Who cares about the birth of everything?
(00:06:15)
End of Science?
(00:11:55)
Limits of science
(00:23:52)
Math v. science
(00:36:05)
Physics as map-making
(00:46:13)
Seeing both sides in science
(00:54:00)
Cultural, civilizational dead-ends
(01:03:05)
Blackbody science v cosmology
(01:19:22)
Liquid metal model of the photosphere
(01:25:42)
Back to the beginning of science?
(01:32:19)
Origins & probabilities
(01:51:11)
Seeds of revolution
(02:01:20)
Publishing fractures
#JohnHorgan #sciencebooks #ScientificAmerican #TheEndofScience #quantumphysics #JWST #biologicalorganism #sciencehistory #nineties #scientificlandscape #mapmaking #mathvscience #culturaldeadends #cosmology #photosphere
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PODCAST INFO: Anastasia completed her PhD studying bioelectricity at Columbia University. When not talking to brilliant people or making movies, she spends her time painting, reading, and guiding backcountry excursions. Shilo also did his PhD at Columbia studying the elastic properties of molecular water. When he's not in the film studio, he's exploring sound in music. They are both freelance professors at various universities.
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