PBD Podcast Mafia States of America | Episode 3 - “You’re a Rat!”
9 snips
Nov 9, 2025 
In a fiery confrontation, Sammy Gravano, the former Gambino underboss turned whistleblower, and Michael Franzese, a past New York mob capo, clash over loyalty and betrayal. They dive into the complexities of cooperation with authorities, debate the meaning of omertà, and reflect on their regrets about leaving the mob life. The duo discusses their aspirations within the underworld, the historical reach of organized crime, and their desires for a better future for their children beyond the mob. Expect explosive revelations and intense exchanges!
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Onstage Confrontation Over Betrayal
- Sammy Gravano explosively confronts Michael Franzese for cooperating with the government and calls him a rat.
- The confrontation forces a pause and mediates tensions about respect, betrayal, and Omerta in front of the audience.
Subpoena, Testimony, And Threats
- Michael describes being subpoenaed in the Norby Walters case and testifying that he was a partner but didn't
Cooperation Can Be Tactical
- Franzese explains federal strategy can manipulate cooperation timelines to extract value and then the strike force dissolved.
- He frames cooperation as tactical, sometimes using limited windows to avoid long-term exposure.