Threat Modeling That Helps the Business - Akira Brand, Sandy Carielli - ASW #316
Feb 4, 2025
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In this engaging discussion, Akira Brand, an AppSec leader at PRA Group, teams up with Sandy Carielli, a principal analyst at Forrester. They dive into the nuances of threat modeling, sharing successful strategies and the importance of collaboration among security and development teams. Topics include the impact of AI on security practices, practical documentation for risk quantification, and enhancing application security through effective threat modeling. The conversation also touches on CPU vulnerabilities and the need for sustainable tech practices.
Effective threat modeling should prioritize actionable steps and collaboration with development teams to enhance application security.
Integrating threat modeling into agile processes fosters timely security discussions, allowing developers to address risks organically.
Simplified, question-driven threat modeling approaches are recommended to empower developers while ensuring compliance with security standards.
Deep dives
Evolving Threat Modeling Practices
Threat modeling has traditionally relied on a simplistic checklist approach that often renders it ineffective and unengaging for development teams. This podcast discusses the shift towards more dynamic and integrated threat modeling frameworks, emphasizing the importance of actionable steps rather than just completing forms. By focusing on collaboration with development teams and ensuring the threat model aligns with business objectives, organizations can create a more secure application environment. The discussion highlights the transition from a two-question model to a more nuanced four-question framework, promoting better discussions around potential risks and their mitigations.
Integrating Threat Modeling in Development
A key insight discussed is the need to integrate threat modeling into the software development lifecycle, particularly during agile stand-up meetings. This integration allows security conversations to happen organically without overwhelming developers with extra meetings. By asking relevant questions related to ongoing projects, teams can address potential security threats in a timely manner. This approach not only helps identify key security concerns but also fosters a culture where security is a shared responsibility among developers.
Challenges with Current Frameworks
During the conversation, it became clear that many teams are not adhering to established threat modeling frameworks like STRIDE or DREAD due to their complexity and perceived heaviness. Instead, practitioners suggest a shift towards simpler question-driven practices to empower developers while maintaining security standards. By prioritizing understanding the application's purpose and potential threats, teams can make informed decisions without feeling burdened by strict frameworks. This highlights the need for more adaptable and user-friendly approaches to threat modeling that can evolve with the team’s understanding of security.
The Importance of Actionable Outcomes
The podcast stresses that the goal of threat modeling should not be to find every possible vulnerability, but to identify the most impactful threats and prioritize them accordingly. By focusing efforts on the most relevant risks, teams can implement security measures that genuinely enhance application safety without stifling innovation and speed of development. The discussion suggests using metrics and risk rankings to evaluate the business impact of threats, thus making it easier to articulate the value of security measures to stakeholders. This approach ensures that security practices are both efficient and effective, ultimately contributing to faster and safer application development.
Building Security Awareness Among Developers
One of the critical points raised is the need for developers to understand basic security concepts and how these apply to their work. This includes creating an environment where security is not viewed as an impediment but as an enabler of better products. Training sessions focusing on real-world threats and how they relate to specific applications can help bridge the gap in understanding. Furthermore, pairing junior developers with experienced team members to facilitate knowledge sharing about security practices can cultivate a proactive security culture within development teams.
Threat modeling has been in the appsec toolbox for decades. But it hasn't always been used and it hasn't always been useful. Sandy Carielli shares what she's learned from talking to orgs about what's been successful, and what's failed, when they've approached this practice. Akira Brand joins to talk about her direct experience with building threat models with developers.
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