The brothers welcome back historian Ilan Pappé to the show to discuss whether he still believes that the Gaza genocide marks "the beginning of the end of the Zionist project", his understanding of the nature of Israel's decline, the attacks on institutions of higher learning, and how Palestine has become the keystone for liberatory projects.

Date of recording: July 8, 2025.

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"The rot is very, very deep" w/ Ilan Pappé