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#323 Annie Jacobsen - Is America Ready for Biological War?

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Jul 20, 2026

Guest

Annie Jacobsen

Annie Jacobsen, a Pulitzer Prize finalist and investigative journalist focused on national security and military history. She walks through biological threats, from transmissibility and genetic targeting to dual-use science and biodefense gaps. Discussions cover devolution plans, DNA database risks, stockpile failures, diagnostics, and why America may be unprepared for a major biological attack.

02:24:49

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ANECDOTE

Government Has A Devolution Plan For Catastrophe

Jacobsen discovered a real, partly classified government plan called devolution to disperse leaders to bunkers after catastrophic outbreaks.
She interviewed Craig Fugate who signed off on the 2016 version, confirming legal protocols exist.

insights

INSIGHT

Leaders Would Be Isolated In Cold Sites During Extreme Outbreak

In a worst-case airborne pathogen with 100% fatality (pneumonic plague), officials plan cold-site relocation for the president and isolated command continuity.
Jacobsen learned leaders would be moved to remote cold sites rather than public bunkers.

insights

INSIGHT

Targeted Genetic Weapons Are Acknowledged Risk

Targeted genetic attacks are technically plausible and have been publicly acknowledged as a concern by experts.
Jacobsen cites Admiral Brett Giroir saying yes, a weapon could target specific genetic populations, and there are suspicions about Chinese research.

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Podcast Reach and Unexpected Fans

02:11 • 5min

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Basics of Biological Threats

07:02 • 7min

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Genetic Targeting and Assassination Risks

14:20 • 5min

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Dual-Use Science and Biodefense Concerns

19:32 • 5min

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Inspiration and Devolution Explained

24:15 • 5min

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Speculative Narrative vs. Conspiracy Labeling

28:54 • 6min

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Devolution Details and Presidential Safety

35:05 • 7min

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DNA Databases and Ethnic Targeting Fears

Choosing a Plausible Bioweapon Scenario

54:16 • 5min

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Red-Teaming and Staged Biological Attacks

59:22 • 5min

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Chimera Weapons and Diagnostics Importance

01:04:48 • 7min

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Homeless Populations as Epidemiological Blind Spots

01:12:08 • 5min

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Stockpiles, Distribution Flaws, and Panic

Military Role, Critical Infrastructure, and Insurrection

01:30:47 • 7min

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Devolution, Hot Sites, and Guarding Bunkers

01:37:45 • 5min

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FEMA, Preparedness Failures, and Panic Economics

01:42:20 • 5min

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Personal Preparedness and Cultural Reactions

01:47:19 • 7min

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Airports, Spread Dynamics, and Diagnostics Role

01:54:04 • 8min

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Quarantine, War-Gaming, and Border Responses

02:01:41 • 5min

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Enforcement, ROE, and COGCON Triggers

02:07:03 • 7min

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Bikini Atoll's Baker Test and Fallout Lessons

• Mentioned in 9 episodes

Operation Paperclip

Patrick Goddard

#661

• Mentioned in 66 episodes

Nuclear War

A Scenario

Annie Jacobsen

In 'Nuclear War: A Scenario', Annie Jacobsen presents a meticulously researched and chilling scenario of a nuclear war. The book begins with a surprise nuclear attack by North Korea on the United States, triggering a cascade of events that involve multiple nations and lead to catastrophic consequences. Jacobsen draws on exclusive interviews with military and civilian experts, as well as recently declassified government reports, to outline the minute-by-minute unfolding of a nuclear conflict. The book highlights the dangers of the 'Launch on Warning' policy, the inadequacy of current nuclear defenses, and the devastating impact on global civilization, including the immediate destruction, long-term environmental damage, and the eventual collapse of societal structures. Jacobsen's work serves as a call to action for disarmament and a stark reminder of the existential threat posed by nuclear weapons.

#5046

• Mentioned in 13 episodes

Biological War

A Scenario

Annie Jacobsen

Annie Jacobsen's 'Biological War: A Scenario' examines the threat of biological weapons through investigative reporting and hypothetical scenarios to highlight vulnerabilities. The book explores historical precedents, scientific developments, and policy failures that could enable biological attacks, warning of significant global risks. Jacobsen combines interviews with experts, analysis of institutional preparedness, and narrative reconstruction to make complex topics accessible. She calls for urgent reforms in public health and national security to prevent catastrophic outbreaks, whether accidental or deliberate. The work aims to spur policymakers and the public to reckon with the realities of biological threats.

#6073

• Mentioned in 11 episodes

Surprise, Kill, Vanish

Annie Jacobsen

#2069

• Mentioned in 28 episodes

Area 51

An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base

Annie Jacobsen

This book provides a comprehensive and gripping narrative of the activities at Area 51, based on interviews with eyewitnesses and formerly classified information. It covers the base's history from its creation at the end of World War II to modern-day operations, including nuclear testing, the development of secret aircraft, and the involvement of various government agencies. Jacobsen's research uncovers the intricate and often secretive operations of the base, making it a seminal work on the subject.

#3266

• Mentioned in 19 episodes

The Pentagon's Brain

An Uncensored History of DARPA, America's Top-Secret Military Research Agency

Annie Jacobsen

In 'The Pentagon's Brain', Annie Jacobsen provides a detailed account of DARPA's history, from its inception during the Cold War to its current projects in AI, biotechnology, and space exploration. The book delves into the ethical dilemmas surrounding DARPA's research and its profound impact on global politics and technology. Jacobsen's narrative is based on extensive research, exclusive interviews, and declassified documents, offering a balanced view of DARPA's achievements and controversies.

Annie Jacobsen is a Pulitzer Prize finalist, investigative journalist, and bestselling author known for her in-depth reporting on national security, intelligence, military history, and classified government programs. She is the author of several acclaimed books, including Nuclear War: A Scenario, Area 51, Operation Paperclip, The Pentagon's Brain, and Surprise, Kill, Vanish. Drawing on extensive interviews with military leaders, intelligence officials, scientists, and policymakers, her work explores some of the most secretive aspects of the U.S. government, from Cold War programs and covert operations to modern nuclear strategy and emerging global threats.

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Annie Jacobsen Links:

Purchase Biological War - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/783250/biological-war-by-annie-jacobsen

Website - https://www.anniejacobsen.com

X - https://x.com/AnnieJacobsen

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/anniejacobsenbooks

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AnnieJacobsenAuthor

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