Postliberals and NatCons See an Opening in Trumpism to Impose Their Respective Agendas: A Conversation with Jerome Copulsky

May 25, 2025

In this discussion, Jerome Copulsky, a research fellow at the Berkley Center for Religion, shares insights on the rise of postliberalism and national conservatism in America. He explores how certain religious groups are challenging the foundational ideals of liberal democracy. Copulsky delves into the reactions of religious conservatives to landmark Supreme Court rulings, the concept of common good constitutionalism linked to the MAGA movement, and the critical examination of George Washington's views on religion in governance. An engaging exploration of faith, politics, and American identity.

42:00

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insights

INSIGHT

Religious Opposition to Liberalism

America's founding opposition has often stemmed from religious groups rejecting liberal political ideals as rejecting divine order.
Different eras show varied religious-political conflicts reflecting responses to perceived threats against their revealed truth.

insights

INSIGHT

Tocqueville’s Religion and Liberalism

Tocqueville praised American religion's role precisely because church and state were separate.
This secular-religion balance fosters moral order without politicizing religious institutions.

insights

INSIGHT

Obergefell as a Watershed Moment

The Obergefell decision marked Christian conservatives' perception of cultural defeat.
This loss shifted strategies from political engagement to withdrawal and preservation of faith communities.

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Faith vs. Democracy: A Historical Perspective

02:19 • 9min

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Shifts in Religious Conservatism Post-Supreme Court Decisions

11:04 • 16min

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Navigating Ideologies: Common Good Constitutionalism and the MAGA Movement

26:51 • 2min

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Rethinking Liberalism: Nationalism and Religion

28:48 • 9min

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Revisiting Washington: A Critical Examination of Religion in American Founding Principles

38:16 • 3min

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#40749

Common Good Constitutionalism

Adrian Vermeule

Adrian Vermeule's "Common Good Constitutionalism" is a significant work in legal and political philosophy that challenges traditional liberal approaches to constitutional interpretation. Vermeule argues for a common good approach, emphasizing the importance of promoting the flourishing of the community as a whole. He criticizes the emphasis on individual rights and judicial review that he sees as characteristic of liberal constitutionalism. Vermeule's work has been highly influential within conservative legal circles but has also generated significant controversy. His ideas have been praised for their intellectual rigor and criticized for their potential to undermine individual liberties.

#380

• Mentioned in 43 episodes

Democracy in America

Alexis de Tocqueville

Written after his travels in the United States, 'Democracy in America' is a comprehensive study of American society and government. Tocqueville examines the democratic revolution and its impact on American life, discussing topics such as the sovereignty of the people, the role of civil society, the dangers of the tyranny of the majority, and the influence of religion and individualism. The book is a philosophical and political analysis that aims to understand why republican representative democracy succeeded in the United States while failing in other places, and it offers insights into the future of democracy both in America and globally.

#474

• Mentioned in 36 episodes

After Virtue

Alistair McIntyre

Alasdair MacIntyre's "After Virtue" is a highly influential work in moral philosophy that critiques modern ethical theories and proposes a return to virtue ethics. MacIntyre argues that modern moral philosophy has lost its way, leading to a fragmented and incoherent understanding of morality. He traces the historical development of ethical thought, identifying the decline of virtue ethics and the rise of emotivism and other relativistic approaches. MacIntyre proposes a revival of virtue ethics grounded in the Aristotelian tradition, emphasizing the importance of character development and the cultivation of virtuous dispositions. His work has had a profound impact on contemporary ethical debates, inspiring renewed interest in virtue ethics and its application to various social and political issues.

#4530

• Mentioned in 6 episodes

Regime Change

Toward a Postliberal Future

Patrick J. Deneen

In 'Regime Change: Toward a Postliberal Future', Patrick Deneen presents a vision for a postliberal society, critiquing the current liberal order for eroding traditional social structures such as family, religion, and local community. Deneen argues that classical liberalism has created a self-serving elite that benefits at the expense of the working class. He proposes a new elite aligned with the interests of the working class, advocating for a mixed regime that combines elements of aristocracy and democracy. The book builds on his previous work, 'Why Liberalism Failed', and suggests a strategic formation of a new elite devoted to 'pre-postmodern conservatism' and the common good, particularly attentive to the voice and status of the working class.

#3354

• Mentioned in 8 episodes

The Virtue of Nationalism

Yoram Hazony

In 'The Virtue of Nationalism,' Yoram Hazony presents a case for the nation-state as the optimal form of government, emphasizing its role in protecting personal and collective freedom. He argues that nationalism, based on bonds of mutual loyalty to a shared culture and history, provides social cohesion and trust necessary for civil and political liberties. Hazony contrasts nationalism with both historical empires and modern forms of global governance, such as the United Nations, which he sees as imposing a universal standard that is intolerant of cultural differences. The book explores the historical roots of nationalism, particularly in the context of English, Dutch, and American Protestantism, and argues that a world of independent nations is more conducive to peace and freedom than a globalist or imperialist system.

#1577

• Mentioned in 15 episodes

The Benedict Option

Rod Dreher

#1281

• Mentioned in 18 episodes

Why Liberalism Failed

Patrick J. Deneen

In 'Why Liberalism Failed,' Patrick J. Deneen critiques both classical liberalism (often called libertarianism) and progressive/modern liberalism. He argues that liberalism has created contradictions such as fostering material inequality despite advocating for equal rights, discouraging civic commitments in favor of privatism, and giving rise to a comprehensive state system while pursuing individual autonomy. Deneen contends that liberalism's success is generating its own failure, leading to issues like income inequality, cultural decline, atomization, and the erosion of freedoms. The book examines the outcomes of the growth of the state, the construction of the free market, and the effects of technology on freedoms and culture.

#15236

• Mentioned in 2 episodes

American Heretics

Religious Adversaries of Liberal Order

Jerome E. Copulsky

America’s Founders believed religion and liberty could not only coexist but be mutually reinforcing. Today, some influential intellectuals on the right are flatly denying that idea of alignment and arguing for society to be reordered around their vision of Christian orthodoxy.

In this episode, Berny Belvedere, The UnPopulist’s senior editor, sits down with Jerome Copulsky, research fellow at the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace & World Affairs and, from 2016 to 2017, senior advisor at the U.S. Department of State’s Office of Religion and Global Affairs. The two discuss Copulsky’s book, American Heretics: Religious Adversaries of Liberal Order, paying special attention to its chapter on the the current right-wing revolt—from groups such as postliberal Catholics and national conservatives—against America’s founding liberal ideals.

We hope you enjoy.

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