81) Tips for Talking to Trinitarians about John 1, Part 2. "the Word was God"

Tips for Talking to Trinitarians about John 1 (Part 2)

The Word was God: what God?

In the previous podcast, Part 1, we asked what “beginning” is directly being referred to in John 1:1, “in the beginning”. If this beginning refers to the new beginning that God is bringing about through life and ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, then Trinitarian or “deity of Christ” speculation about a second god-figure is misplaced and wrong.

In this podcast we examine closer John 1:1 “and the Word was with God and the Word was God”. The focus of “and the Word was God” is, which God, or who? Trinitarians and “deity of Christ” believers insist that it was “God the Son”, or “God the Word” in Jesus. But this claim explicitly contradicts Jesus and the author of the Gospel of John who declare it was the Father in Jesus.

If “God” in the phrase “the Word was God” is the Father, Trinitarianism and “deity of Christ” speculation is dead.

Time stamps:

00:18 Additional follow-up comments about “in the beginning” en arche in Greek.

02:21 Introduction to the current podcast

03:28 All “deity of Christ” interpretations of Scripture passages attempt to eliminate the human person, Jesus the Christ from Nazareth.

05:02 The Word was With God. Parallels to Moses. Contrast with John the Baptist. The Logos (Word) is differentiated from God (not just “the Father”) two times in the first two verses of John’s Gospel.

07:21 The Word was God. Is this an ontological statement about the deity of a second God figure? Trinitarians change the meaning of “God” in John 1:1, even though the first occurence is separated from the second occurrence only by the word “and” kai. For Trinitarians, “God” in John 1:1c can not be the Father.

11:12 God is the Father in the Gospel of John, and in John 1;1c

12:19 Who is God in the Gospel of John? The Father. The Gospel says that it is the Father in Jesus, John 10_38, 14_9-10 (14_9-20).

16:31 The Word was God the Father, in action - God the Father at work.

17:26 Using the Bible, the Word of God, as in illustration of “the Word was God”.

18:21 The “Logos was God” means “God the Father in action”. The Father’s presence, power, manifestation, and the Father being represented (agency).

24:34 The tendency of Gentiles to understand “was God” as relating to essence or being.

25:35 The Word is not the source of creation or redemptive regeneration. The Father is the source of His word. The Word is the channel or instrument.

26:08 Confirmation in passages like 2 Cor. 5_18-19 that God the Father was at work in Christ.

26:56 Reasons why the human person Jesus is called the Word.

30:15 The Logos (Jesus the Christ) is compared to Moses in John’s prologue. Neither Moses nor Jesus were the original source of what they brought, but were channels. The Torah came through Moses. Grace and truth came through Jesus the Christ. But Jesus was not the original source of grace and truth.

31:31 Summary and Conclusion