In this episode, we’re having a boundaryless conversation with Joe Norman, a complex systems scientist researching systemic risk and precaution in large-scale systems. Joe explores strategies for uncertainty, complex systems engineering, pattern formation in biological and social systems. Joe’s work brings amazing insights to creating new organizational development models that could be better equipped to deal with the asymmetric risk factors that we foresee these days, in light of rising complexity of the human society and of the destabilization of its support systems.  We talk about decentralization and localism as a way to deflate such risks while changing the landscape of organising and influencing its salience. Joe underlines the importance of tackling challenges at the appropriate scale, applying a multi-scale variety lens. Our conversation further points in the direction of systemic health-embeddedness and the principle of subsidiarity and the precautionary principle as providing adequate constraints, rather than directions, for systems to evolve. Remember that you can find the show notes and transcripts from all our episodes on our Medium publication.  To find out more about Joe’s work: > Joe’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/normonics > Email: joe.w.norman@gmail.com > Website: http://jwnorman.com/ Other mentions and references: > Balaji Srinivasan On The Argument For Decentralization - Part 1, Pomp Podcast #295: https://youtu.be/SU6H-5kA0FA  > Wendell Berry, The Unsettling of America: Culture & Agriculture:  https://www.amazon.com/Unsettling-America-Culture-Agriculture/dp/0871568772 > Find out more about the show and the research at Boundaryless at www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/podcast > Thanks for the ad-hoc music to Liosound / Walter Mobilio. Find his portfolio here: www.platformdesigntoolkit.com/music     Recorded on May 25th 2020