Ed Hightower: From South Side Struggles to International Referee | A Success Story

?️ Dive into the extraordinary life of Ed Hightower on this heart-pounding episode of Circuit of Success Podcast! ? From humble beginnings in the South to the global stage as a former NCAA basketball referee, Ed shares his riveting journey with host Brett Gilliland. ? Uncover the secrets to Ed’s success as he emphasizes the crucial role of a solid value system and guardrails in staying focused and on track. Get the inside scoop on facing legendary coaches like Bobby Knight and Judd Heathcote, and the invaluable lessons learned by doing the right thing, even when it’s unpopular. Hear firsthand about his experiences representing the United States in international tournaments and the art of staying objective in high-stakes moments. ? Ed’s motivational insights extend beyond the court, urging young people to do the right thing when no one is watching and take ownership of mistakes. Don’t miss out on the incredible anecdotes, including Ed’s unforgettable night at the Final Four dinner in 1989, seated next to none other than the legendary Andy Kaufman! Join us for an inspiring conversation with a true game-changer. Ed Hightower’s story is a beacon of hard work, dedication, and resilience—packed with timeless lessons applicable to everyone. #EdHightower #NCAAReferee #CircuitOfSuccess

Full Youtube Episode

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Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host

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Brett Gilliland. And today, I’ve got Ed Hightower

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with me. Ed, how you doing? Oh, the

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pleasure is all mine, Brett. It’s good to

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be with you. It’s good to be with

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you. So,

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well, people that don’t know. You probably, everybody’s

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watching this knows who are. I mean, you’ve

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had a heck of a career. Well, I’ve

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been very fortunate. I’ve had a lot of

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support along the way, and,

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very, very blessed. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. So former

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superintendent at Edwardsville Hightower school, nineteen years in

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Edwardsville, but forty years in education.

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Forty years in education. In,

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nineteen years, a superintendent update at Whisfield School

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District. I went there in nineteen ninety Gilliland

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retired.

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In two thousand fifteen. So Amazing. In, thirty

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six years, is an NCAA referee? Thirty six

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years as an NC Yagate referee, thirty three

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years in the Big 10:12

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final fours, the World Games. Man,

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representative of the United States at the World

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Games in Bonazaris,

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a representative of the United States at the

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Good World Games in, Saint Petersburg so I

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was very, very fortunate. That’s incredible. Incredible. I

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remember you in my, fighting a Lineite days

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when I was, you know, younger man and

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and watch to my my flying line item,

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which we I wanna talk about that later

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if that’s alright. So but if you can,

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Ed, give us a little lay of the

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lay in the story. You don’t just wake

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up and spend forty years and get your

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doctorate and, you know, have an amazing marriage

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of forty nine years, two daughters, NCAA AA,

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all the stuff that we just mentioned. But

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what’s what’s some of that backstory? Some of

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your stories? Well, back story, you know, I’m

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just one of these,

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young individuals,

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very fortunate.

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I grew up in the south.

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My mom and and,

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dad, divorced when I was twelve years old.

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I’m the second of eight Children, I never

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thought that, I would complete,

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even a high school education when I was

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in the south.

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Things were tough. My mom

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moved,

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to Alton, Illinois in nineteen,

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sixty six.

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And,

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she always made education a priority,

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education church, given back to the community a

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priority.

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For all eight of us,

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siblings.

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Yeah. And, we were very fortunate. And from

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that point,

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played basketball,

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baseball at Alton High School,

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nineteen seventy. I graduated and went to s

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I u e on a basketball scholarship plate

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for the cougars. I know that. And started

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refereeing intramural basketballs with these poor kids,

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didn’t have any money, but, start refereeing intramural

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basketball,

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in nineteen seventy one for a dollar and

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twenty five cents a game. Think about that

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one for a moment. Man.

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And,

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I’d watch,

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you know, I I had no,

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relationship with officials when I when I played.

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But,

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you know, when you can,

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referee,

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the various fraternities,

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in college

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and some of those guys who think that

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they were the best players ever, and some

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of those guys who never could play. Yeah.

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You you get a a mix and a

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variance of,

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my term is better than your fraternity.

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There you go.

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And so I graduated,

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in nineteen seventy four, I started teaching. My

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wife and I were married, and then I

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got a raise for refereeing.

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I start, refereeing,

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open city league recreation

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basketball, and, I got a raise from a

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dollar twenty five cents a game to, five

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dollars a game.

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Oh. So I was in I was in

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seven heaven.

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Five times more money. You got it in.

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I would work three games,

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three games a night,

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three times a week. Shit.

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It had nineteen,

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seventy four. That was pretty good money. You

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know, a good nice supplement. You know? Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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And from that point,

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It just happened,

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at the same time.

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I was back at SAW working on my,

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my master’s

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in education

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to become an administrator.

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I got that. I was very fortunate to

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have had,

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a great mentor,

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in the superintendent.

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Who took me on his wings,

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this young,

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African American kid, and,

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and, I went into administration a very young

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age. Okay. Yeah. And,

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I’ll tell you, Brett of the forty years.

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I spent in,

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education

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thirty seven of those years were actually in

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administration. Oh my goodness. So I had a

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lot I had a lot of opportunities

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to screw it up and make mistakes. Exactly.

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Exactly.

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So what what were your expectations like? So

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you said you grew up in the south,

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didn’t have any money, but yet, I would

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think to do that, your expectations were high.

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Expect taste expectations are extremely high that you

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have to work.

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You had to work. My mom and still,

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work ethic in in all of us Yeah.

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That,

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that there was no compromise. What did she

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do for a living? Oh, gosh. She,

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worked in the fields,

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cotton fields,

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She was a nurse. She went back and

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got, her certificate to be a nurse.

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And, and then, of course, when we moved

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here in sixty six, She worked at Olin,

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industry where money was, plenty for, work was

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plenty for, and she was able to care

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for us, but our value system was simple.

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Work,

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be honest,

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go to church,

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give something back.

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It’s simple. And World needs that. Right? It’s

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so simple. And, I never forgot that. And

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that’s what I believe in today, and that’s

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we brought up our daughters.

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That’s the message that I send clearly

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to young people.

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I’ve sent

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over my years.

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And,

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even now, I’m heavily involved,

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with,

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two

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projects,

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and building forty,

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affordable houses in Alton,

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starting March,

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and I put together a white people to

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revitalize,

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Venice.

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You know, that community,

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low income,

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poverty stricken, driven,

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no grocery store, no healthcare facilities.

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We were fortunate to get them a new

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elementary school, which, we will break ground there.

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In March,

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about twenty four, twenty six million dollars thanks

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to our legislators.

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We’re working them a grocery store. We’re working

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to get them a healthcare sit, facility.

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And then, we’re gonna put forty homes there.

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We’re working to bring in a rec center

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for the young people there. So again,

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given back to the community,

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The second initiative that, I have going now.

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For the Madison High School, students, we’ve started

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a Sky bullshit fund

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for those high school students,

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whereby we will be able to give

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anywhere from,

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three to five two thousand dollars scholarships,

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each year beginning,

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and,

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twenty four.

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So, you know, again, I’m,

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pretty,

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pretty patient. But but, you know, the the

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the thing, it’s all on my time.

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You know, it’s not like I have to

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punch a clock now. It’s not like I’ve

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got When I was superintendent,

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I had seven thousand six hundred students in

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the Atmos School District,

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and parents,

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very demanding.

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And so I don’t have the parents screaming

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and hollering at me. I missed the kids.

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Same thing with her friend. I don’t have

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folks like you from the whole line eye

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screaming and holler net. That’s a terrible call.

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That was a terrible call. Hightower. You you

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know, you hate Illinois. Right? Oh, you know,

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and then I go to Michigan. You hate

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Michigan? I hate Michigan. You know, I hate,

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you know,

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So, you know, I don’t have that now.

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You know, I just wake up and do

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the kinds of things that,

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that meets

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my value system

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of giving back and, and so on. Then

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during the wintertime, my wife and I, forty

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nine years,

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we,

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I go to Florida and, spend time there.

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So Where can that golf game? I do.

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What’s the handicap? My handicap is a seven.

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My index

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found. My index is, is about an eight,

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seven out at Sunset Country Club. So, yeah,

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so, you know, so Yeah. The the the

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the golf has improved

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since I retired because I was I’m not

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on a I’m not on a phone all

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the time. Yeah. Check this email resolve that

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message and do all that. So, you know,

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here’s the thing I you’ve mentioned a couple

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times is your values organization. Right? So your

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values, I think we think of as an

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organization We had to be values aligned and

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mission aligned. And and what I have found

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through my twenty two, twenty three year career

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is when those things are aligned, good things

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happen. Right? Absolutely. But when they’re not, bad

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things happen. Right? Absolutely.

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Because be and and the reason,

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there are no guardrails.

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When you when your when your value system

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is a line, there are guardrails that

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keeps

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that keep you focused. Yeah. You know, when

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I

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refereed,

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when I represented the United States, I remember

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this

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so vividly.

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My my first trip

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to the world games. That was the first

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time that, I mean, I’m on major,

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international stage.

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Mike Kachevsky was the coach

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of the US team.

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I’m never free.

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What an awesome responsibility

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to represent your country?

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And as you as they prepare you to

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go

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to,

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setting like what my first trip was.

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They tell you, it’s not if

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you’re gonna be proposition.

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It’s when.

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And

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The

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simple answer is, just say no.

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It it walks to double proposition to do

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what? A proposition given money.

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Yeah.

00:10:50.000 –> 00:10:50.000
To

00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:53.000
Make a different call. Make a different different

00:10:53.000 –> 00:10:57.000
call or something like that. So, yeah, those

00:10:57.000 –> 00:10:57.000
all of those,

00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:00.000
tangibles

00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:01.000
are

00:11:01.000 –> 00:11:03.000
there to incentivize

00:11:03.000 –> 00:11:06.000
you to do the wrong things. Right. But

00:11:06.000 –> 00:11:09.000
if your value system is in check,

00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000
you’re gonna do the right things when people

00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:13.000
aren’t around.

00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000
And that’s the key thing I tell young

00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:17.000
people.

00:11:18.000 –> 00:11:20.000
Don’t get caught up with just doing the

00:11:20.000 –> 00:11:21.000
right things

00:11:22.000 –> 00:11:22.000
when,

00:11:23.000 –> 00:11:24.000
or the right thing when

00:11:25.000 –> 00:11:28.000
somebody’s watching you. The big test is can

00:11:28.000 –> 00:11:29.000
you

00:11:29.000 –> 00:11:32.000
do the right thing or the right things

00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:36.000
when people aren’t Yep. And that’s where

00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:40.000
the value system comes into play. The safeguards,

00:11:40.000 –> 00:11:43.000
the safe rails, guardrails are there.

00:11:43.000 –> 00:11:45.000
To keep you

00:11:45.000 –> 00:11:45.000
centered

00:11:46.000 –> 00:11:48.000
and keep you, keep your eye on the

00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:50.000
mark, and so on, and you don’t get

00:11:50.000 –> 00:11:51.000
sidelined.

00:11:51.000 –> 00:11:54.000
Yep. So it’s, my buddy Steve went off

00:11:54.000 –> 00:11:55.000
when we were talking last night. I told

00:11:55.000 –> 00:11:57.000
him that you were coming on, and he’s

00:11:57.000 –> 00:11:59.000
a big basketball guy. And so shout out

00:11:59.000 –> 00:12:01.000
to Steve, but He’s like, how do you

00:12:01.000 –> 00:12:02.000
handle up objectivity?

00:12:03.000 –> 00:12:05.000
Surely there were some coaches or programs or

00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:07.000
players that were harder to you know, you

00:12:07.000 –> 00:12:09.000
know, they were gonna be on you the

00:12:09.000 –> 00:12:10.000
whole time. Right? And and so how did

00:12:10.000 –> 00:12:12.000
you stay objective with that of not trying

00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:14.000
to choose sides or when you go represent

00:12:14.000 –> 00:12:16.000
America to not say, I wanna, you know,

00:12:16.000 –> 00:12:18.000
I want my guys to win. The guardrails.

00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:20.000
Yep. Yeah. Again, the value system,

00:12:21.000 –> 00:12:22.000
honesty, integrity,

00:12:23.000 –> 00:12:26.000
hard work. Yeah. And, that you put those

00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000
all in that, as a potpourri.

00:12:29.000 –> 00:12:31.000
Guess what’s gonna come out? Hence why you

00:12:31.000 –> 00:12:32.000
did twelve,

00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:34.000
final four. You got it. Yeah. And and,

00:12:34.000 –> 00:12:34.000
you know,

00:12:35.000 –> 00:12:38.000
coach Knight and I were very close. Yeah.

00:12:38.000 –> 00:12:39.000
A lot of people don’t know that. We

00:12:39.000 –> 00:12:40.000
talked

00:12:41.000 –> 00:12:43.000
you know, we would bump heads on the

00:12:43.000 –> 00:12:43.000
floor.

00:12:44.000 –> 00:12:45.000
But,

00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:47.000
off the floor, we would talk,

00:12:48.000 –> 00:12:49.000
we talked a lot

00:12:49.000 –> 00:12:51.000
about education, about young people,

00:12:52.000 –> 00:12:54.000
one of the smartest individuals you ever wanna

00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:55.000
be around.

00:12:56.000 –> 00:12:56.000
And,

00:12:58.000 –> 00:12:58.000
guardrails.

00:12:59.000 –> 00:12:59.000
Okay.

00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:02.000
You always know that

00:13:05.000 –> 00:13:06.000
going into that game,

00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:10.000
you have to be

00:13:11.000 –> 00:13:12.000
not subjective,

00:13:13.000 –> 00:13:16.000
but objective. You see it you call it

00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:19.000
and let the chips fall where they may.

00:13:19.000 –> 00:13:22.000
But by the same token you there to

00:13:22.000 –> 00:13:26.000
lend a hand as as to both sides.

00:13:26.000 –> 00:13:27.000
And when I say that,

00:13:28.000 –> 00:13:30.000
I would go to, say, coach Knight, for

00:13:30.000 –> 00:13:32.000
example, and say, Hey.

00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:34.000
Number fifty four,

00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:36.000
He’s got his hands on him.

00:13:37.000 –> 00:13:40.000
Yep. Now I’m telling you to take care

00:13:40.000 –> 00:13:41.000
of it. If you don’t take care of

00:13:41.000 –> 00:13:43.000
it, you’re gonna take care of it. Alright.

00:13:43.000 –> 00:13:46.000
Then you go down to the other end,

00:13:46.000 –> 00:13:47.000
Michigan State,

00:13:48.000 –> 00:13:51.000
at that time, Judd Heathco. Yeah. Are, I’m

00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:53.000
gonna tell you a little story about Lou

00:13:53.000 –> 00:13:55.000
Henson in just a moment, but

00:13:55.000 –> 00:13:57.000
you would do the same thing on the

00:13:57.000 –> 00:14:00.000
Gilliland the coaches know that. And they respect

00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:04.000
you, and they know when that game is

00:14:04.000 –> 00:14:05.000
on the line.

00:14:06.000 –> 00:14:08.000
They can trust you to do the right

00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:11.000
thing. Yeah. It goes back through what I

00:14:11.000 –> 00:14:13.000
said earlier, the right thing.

00:14:14.000 –> 00:14:16.000
Not that you you aren’t gonna make mistakes.

00:14:17.000 –> 00:14:19.000
Not that you you aren’t gonna miss a

00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:19.000
call,

00:14:20.000 –> 00:14:23.000
but they trust you to do the right

00:14:23.000 –> 00:14:23.000
thing.

00:14:24.000 –> 00:14:26.000
Lou Henson played a very,

00:14:27.000 –> 00:14:30.000
important role in Ed Hightower getting to the

00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:31.000
big ten, and I never knew about it

00:14:31.000 –> 00:14:32.000
until

00:14:32.000 –> 00:14:35.000
six years after I was in the big

00:14:35.000 –> 00:14:37.000
ten, after I became a crew chief.

00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:42.000
Lou Henson was in this area, recruiting.

00:14:43.000 –> 00:14:45.000
Saw me referee in a high school basketball

00:14:45.000 –> 00:14:46.000
game.

00:14:48.000 –> 00:14:49.000
Called a big ten,

00:14:50.000 –> 00:14:52.000
Wow. The next day and said, I mean,

00:14:52.000 –> 00:14:52.000
tell you,

00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:55.000
I saw this young African American.

00:14:56.000 –> 00:14:58.000
He is gonna be good.

00:14:59.000 –> 00:15:01.000
You need to get someone down there and

00:15:01.000 –> 00:15:03.000
take a look at this guy and start

00:15:03.000 –> 00:15:07.000
tracking him. He’s gonna be good. And somebody

00:15:07.000 –> 00:15:10.000
is gonna get him. Another league is gonna

00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:13.000
get him, you need to take a look.

00:15:13.000 –> 00:15:15.000
Well, lo and behold,

00:15:15.000 –> 00:15:16.000
I’m twenty

00:15:16.000 –> 00:15:19.000
five years old. I go to my first

00:15:19.000 –> 00:15:21.000
camp at Michigan State, Big Ten Camp.

00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:26.000
Out of a hundred and ten

00:15:26.000 –> 00:15:27.000
campers,

00:15:28.000 –> 00:15:29.000
they only took two

00:15:32.000 –> 00:15:32.000
campers

00:15:33.000 –> 00:15:35.000
and added us to what they used to

00:15:35.000 –> 00:15:38.000
call in the Big Ten, our satellite crew.

00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:40.000
That was the

00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:41.000
officials

00:15:41.000 –> 00:15:44.000
that they would hire at that time at

00:15:44.000 –> 00:15:46.000
a Western Illinois university, which was a division

00:15:46.000 –> 00:15:48.000
two Eastern

00:15:48.000 –> 00:15:49.000
Northern Iowa

00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:53.000
Okay? And they would track your experience.

00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:56.000
You got it. Yeah. And then from that

00:15:56.000 –> 00:15:56.000
point,

00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:59.000
two years later,

00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:03.000
the supervisor of the Big Ten called the

00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:05.000
Missouri Valley and said, look,

00:16:06.000 –> 00:16:08.000
we’ve got this young kid And again, I

00:16:08.000 –> 00:16:10.000
don’t know this at the time. I know,

00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:12.000
as they say, I know nothing.

00:16:12.000 –> 00:16:15.000
He’s getting the Gilliland security. Exactly.

00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:16.000
So,

00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:20.000
I was at, I was selected to do

00:16:20.000 –> 00:16:22.000
the National Jukot Tournament.

00:16:23.000 –> 00:16:25.000
I am now twenty

00:16:25.000 –> 00:16:26.000
seven years old.

00:16:27.000 –> 00:16:30.000
The National Duke Oak tournament in Hutchison, Kansas.

00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:32.000
And,

00:16:32.000 –> 00:16:33.000
Johnny Overbe,

00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:35.000
who was the Missouri Valley,

00:16:36.000 –> 00:16:37.000
supervisor.

00:16:38.000 –> 00:16:40.000
I didn’t know he was at the game.

00:16:40.000 –> 00:16:44.000
He sat and watch me work for three

00:16:44.000 –> 00:16:45.000
days in a row.

00:16:46.000 –> 00:16:46.000
Okay.

00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:47.000
And,

00:16:48.000 –> 00:16:48.000
with that,

00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:54.000
He came in that third night after the

00:16:54.000 –> 00:16:55.000
game and said, I’ve watched you,

00:16:56.000 –> 00:16:57.000
three days.

00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:00.000
I wanna bring you into the Missouri Valley.

00:17:01.000 –> 00:17:03.000
Brought me into the Missouri Valley.

00:17:04.000 –> 00:17:09.000
You know, I fool some Gilliland,

00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000
I worked there two years in the Missouri

00:17:12.000 –> 00:17:14.000
Gilliland then a big ten,

00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:15.000
set at,

00:17:16.000 –> 00:17:18.000
I We’re gonna bring you and put you

00:17:18.000 –> 00:17:20.000
on a crew. So they put me on

00:17:20.000 –> 00:17:22.000
a crew at twenty nine years old

00:17:22.000 –> 00:17:24.000
on a now you think about this.

00:17:24.000 –> 00:17:25.000
Now,

00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:27.000
That’s young. That young?

00:17:28.000 –> 00:17:31.000
Yeah. That is too young. Okay. That’s Okay.

00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:32.000
T

00:17:32.000 –> 00:17:35.000
o o, too young. Right.

00:17:35.000 –> 00:17:38.000
And, but I was very fortunate.

00:17:40.000 –> 00:17:42.000
I walked in and let me tell you,

00:17:43.000 –> 00:17:44.000
you think you’re ready.

00:17:45.000 –> 00:17:47.000
Well, you find quickly when you walk into

00:17:47.000 –> 00:17:49.000
an Illinois and you’ve got fourteen thousand

00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:54.000
crazies there on crosses on you majorly.

00:17:55.000 –> 00:17:57.000
Or you go to Gilliland,

00:17:57.000 –> 00:17:59.000
and you got sixteen thousand people there, a

00:17:59.000 –> 00:18:02.000
sea of red. Yeah. And at that time,

00:18:02.000 –> 00:18:03.000
you know, coach Hightower was just like a

00:18:03.000 –> 00:18:07.000
giant. He was a giant in the game

00:18:07.000 –> 00:18:08.000
and a big man

00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000
to to boot. I had seen him on

00:18:11.000 –> 00:18:14.000
TV, but I did not know him.

00:18:14.000 –> 00:18:17.000
Okay? Mhmm. So I go out there, but

00:18:17.000 –> 00:18:18.000
I had been told

00:18:18.000 –> 00:18:19.000
by,

00:18:20.000 –> 00:18:20.000
another,

00:18:21.000 –> 00:18:22.000
prominent

00:18:23.000 –> 00:18:25.000
veteran referee. His name was Jim Bane. Oh

00:18:25.000 –> 00:18:27.000
my gosh. That’s so crazy. See, you’re not

00:18:27.000 –> 00:18:29.000
gonna believe this. I thought you’re gonna say

00:18:29.000 –> 00:18:30.000
this. He was my neighbor growing up in

00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:33.000
Matune, Illinois. Are you kidding me? Oh my

00:18:33.000 –> 00:18:36.000
gosh. Well, Jim Baine was my mentor. He’s

00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:38.000
literally one of the things I was gonna

00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:40.000
bring Jim. Jim Bane. Yeah. Jim Bane,

00:18:41.000 –> 00:18:44.000
Matune. You’re Hightower. Banker and all, well, Jim

00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000
and I. Jim and I used to fly.

00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000
So funny. Jim was a pilot.

00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:51.000
At one time. I leased an airplane,

00:18:51.000 –> 00:18:54.000
and had someone flying me around. And we

00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:56.000
would hook up. I’d go to Decatur, pick

00:18:56.000 –> 00:18:58.000
him up, depending on where we’re going. But

00:18:58.000 –> 00:18:59.000
the

00:19:00.000 –> 00:19:00.000
the the

00:19:01.000 –> 00:19:02.000
he

00:19:02.000 –> 00:19:03.000
initiation

00:19:03.000 –> 00:19:04.000
to the big ten,

00:19:05.000 –> 00:19:05.000
Jim

00:19:06.000 –> 00:19:07.000
I talk I would talk to him all

00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:09.000
of the time. And I said, Jim, tell

00:19:09.000 –> 00:19:11.000
me, how do you heal

00:19:12.000 –> 00:19:13.000
a coach knight?

00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:15.000
How do you heal?

00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:17.000
And he says, and he used to call

00:19:17.000 –> 00:19:18.000
me Eddie. Eddie,

00:19:20.000 –> 00:19:21.000
coach Knight,

00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:23.000
he’s gonna test you

00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:26.000
when you first get in a big ten.

00:19:26.000 –> 00:19:27.000
You could take it to the bank.

00:19:28.000 –> 00:19:31.000
Judd Heathcoat is gonna test you

00:19:31.000 –> 00:19:33.000
when you Yeah.

00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:35.000
Get to one of his games.

00:19:36.000 –> 00:19:38.000
He says, not coach knight. It’s gonna say

00:19:38.000 –> 00:19:41.000
something to you. It may be religious.

00:19:42.000 –> 00:19:44.000
It may be political Gilliland

00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:44.000
it.

00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:46.000
He may say something,

00:19:47.000 –> 00:19:48.000
racially.

00:19:48.000 –> 00:19:50.000
Oh my god. Because he wants to see

00:19:50.000 –> 00:19:51.000
how you’re gonna react.

00:19:52.000 –> 00:19:54.000
How thick is the man you have? Don’t

00:19:54.000 –> 00:19:55.000
react.

00:19:55.000 –> 00:19:56.000
And he says,

00:19:57.000 –> 00:20:00.000
all of these coaches in their own way

00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:02.000
will test you and here’s why.

00:20:03.000 –> 00:20:05.000
They’re not concerned

00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:06.000
about you

00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:07.000
at home.

00:20:09.000 –> 00:20:13.000
They’re concerned about you when Indiana goes to

00:20:13.000 –> 00:20:13.000
Purdue.

00:20:14.000 –> 00:20:17.000
And that fifteen thousand people are there

00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:19.000
at Machia Arena.

00:20:20.000 –> 00:20:21.000
Or when he goes to Illinois,

00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:25.000
and they’ve got the fourteen thousand people are

00:20:25.000 –> 00:20:26.000
so there.

00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:29.000
They are They wanna know how you’re gonna

00:20:29.000 –> 00:20:30.000
behave on the road.

00:20:31.000 –> 00:20:34.000
So I get asked this story often. What

00:20:34.000 –> 00:20:36.000
was the first thing coach and I said

00:20:36.000 –> 00:20:36.000
to you?

00:20:37.000 –> 00:20:37.000
So,

00:20:38.000 –> 00:20:39.000
this young cat,

00:20:40.000 –> 00:20:43.000
twenty eight years old, I walk out there

00:20:43.000 –> 00:20:44.000
on the floor.

00:20:45.000 –> 00:20:46.000
We get there. We have to be there

00:20:46.000 –> 00:20:48.000
an hour and a half before game time.

00:20:48.000 –> 00:20:50.000
Nobody’s in the arena.

00:20:51.000 –> 00:20:52.000
Then we have to walk out on the

00:20:52.000 –> 00:20:55.000
floor. Thirty minutes before game time.

00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:58.000
We walk out there thirty minutes before game

00:20:58.000 –> 00:21:00.000
time. There’s just a sea of red, sixteen

00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:03.000
thousand people, sea of red.

00:21:03.000 –> 00:21:05.000
And then coach Hightower

00:21:05.000 –> 00:21:08.000
at that time, he would normally come out

00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:09.000
a minute before the game.

00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:11.000
That was his demo.

00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:12.000
Well,

00:21:13.000 –> 00:21:15.000
He knew that he had this young,

00:21:17.000 –> 00:21:18.000
young official.

00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:21.000
He comes out about two and a half

00:21:21.000 –> 00:21:22.000
minutes before game time.

00:21:23.000 –> 00:21:26.000
The sea the the the the fans, they

00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:27.000
stand

00:21:27.000 –> 00:21:30.000
held to the king, held to the king.

00:21:30.000 –> 00:21:32.000
And so he walks by.

00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:36.000
The three officials. He goes down shakes hands

00:21:37.000 –> 00:21:39.000
with the, shake hand with the,

00:21:39.000 –> 00:21:42.000
opposing coach. Yeah. So he comes back and

00:21:42.000 –> 00:21:44.000
I’m just I I’m so scared.

00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:46.000
I am so scared to Shamkia because he,

00:21:47.000 –> 00:21:49.000
you know, all of the history

00:21:50.000 –> 00:21:53.000
throwing chairs, screaming yelling, you know, but just

00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:55.000
just just his m o, you know, just,

00:21:55.000 –> 00:21:57.000
you know, he was he was a national

00:21:57.000 –> 00:21:58.000
figure.

00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:00.000
So he goes down

00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:04.000
and he gets about six inches. His rear

00:22:04.000 –> 00:22:06.000
end from hitting his seat.

00:22:06.000 –> 00:22:08.000
And he comes back, and he gets right

00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:09.000
in my face.

00:22:10.000 –> 00:22:11.000
And he says,

00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:14.000
I hope you’re not tonight when I get

00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:16.000
on you. Oh.

00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000
It’s gonna be,

00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:21.000
chewing that, and you can fill fill in

00:22:21.000 –> 00:22:22.000
the words.

00:22:22.000 –> 00:22:24.000
That you’ve never

00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:26.000
this is what it gave. And the fans

00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:27.000
are eating it up.

00:22:28.000 –> 00:22:30.000
Yeah. The fans are eating it up.

00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:32.000
This will be a chewing like you’ve never

00:22:32.000 –> 00:22:34.000
had before. Yeah. Welcome

00:22:35.000 –> 00:22:36.000
to the Big Ten.

00:22:37.000 –> 00:22:39.000
Now you think about that for a moment.

00:22:39.000 –> 00:22:41.000
And now, so that was my

00:22:42.000 –> 00:22:42.000
intro

00:22:43.000 –> 00:22:44.000
to coach Knight.

00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:48.000
Well, I in talking with Jim, Jim said

00:22:48.000 –> 00:22:51.000
Listen. The way you hail a coach knight,

00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:53.000
you don’t you you hail him the same

00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:54.000
way I want you to handle every other

00:22:54.000 –> 00:22:55.000
coach.

00:22:56.000 –> 00:22:59.000
You when you get near the coach where

00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:01.000
he’s standing, get out on the floor.

00:23:02.000 –> 00:23:02.000
And then

00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:05.000
when you start to go back down the

00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000
floor, you go. You don’t you don’t linger.

00:23:08.000 –> 00:23:09.000
Doing a time out.

00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:12.000
Get out on the floor. You don’t need

00:23:12.000 –> 00:23:14.000
to and I I get angry now when

00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:16.000
I see these officials standing over their body

00:23:16.000 –> 00:23:17.000
coaches.

00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:20.000
They are not there to be your friend.

00:23:20.000 –> 00:23:22.000
They don’t give you candy.

00:23:23.000 –> 00:23:26.000
And they’re not handing out candy. No. So

00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:27.000
bottom line,

00:23:27.000 –> 00:23:30.000
I always adopt at that. I and that

00:23:30.000 –> 00:23:30.000
was my,

00:23:32.000 –> 00:23:34.000
way of Helen Coaches. Now

00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:36.000
the next game,

00:23:36.000 –> 00:23:39.000
I’ve got conference game. Uh-oh.

00:23:39.000 –> 00:23:40.000
I’ve got

00:23:41.000 –> 00:23:42.000
Judd Heathcote

00:23:43.000 –> 00:23:45.000
at Iowa against

00:23:46.000 –> 00:23:47.000
Lou

00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:47.000
lutosin.

00:23:48.000 –> 00:23:49.000
Yeah. Okay.

00:23:50.000 –> 00:23:53.000
He was there. Apartment? I forgot he was

00:23:53.000 –> 00:23:55.000
there. Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. They had

00:23:55.000 –> 00:23:56.000
just opened Okay. Carver,

00:23:57.000 –> 00:23:59.000
hawk iron. Yeah. Okay.

00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:00.000
So now

00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:02.000
Think about this for a moment.

00:24:04.000 –> 00:24:05.000
The Iowa fans, they

00:24:07.000 –> 00:24:08.000
are rabbit.

00:24:09.000 –> 00:24:11.000
Because again, and I will think about it.

00:24:11.000 –> 00:24:13.000
There there there are no major league sports.

00:24:13.000 –> 00:24:16.000
It’s it’s just all this is the big

00:24:16.000 –> 00:24:18.000
deal. This is the big leagues as they

00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:18.000
call it.

00:24:19.000 –> 00:24:21.000
Judd Heat heat coat

00:24:22.000 –> 00:24:24.000
didn’t like young officials

00:24:25.000 –> 00:24:28.000
because he could not trust them. And I

00:24:28.000 –> 00:24:29.000
and I and I understand why now as

00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:32.000
I as I got into it, I I

00:24:32.000 –> 00:24:34.000
I quickly learned that. But again,

00:24:35.000 –> 00:24:38.000
same thing. Jim said, Ed,

00:24:38.000 –> 00:24:40.000
he’s gonna say something to you.

00:24:41.000 –> 00:24:44.000
Just let it go. So we go out

00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:44.000
there.

00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:46.000
I’m working with this veteran referee.

00:24:48.000 –> 00:24:50.000
This veteran referee in the first five minutes

00:24:50.000 –> 00:24:53.000
he makes three of the worst calls in

00:24:53.000 –> 00:24:54.000
America.

00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:59.000
Michigan two against Michigan State One against Iowa.

00:24:59.000 –> 00:25:02.000
Neither one of the coaches said a word.

00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:04.000
Neither one of the coaches.

00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:05.000
So now,

00:25:06.000 –> 00:25:08.000
it Hightower when he finally gets enough

00:25:08.000 –> 00:25:09.000
nerve

00:25:10.000 –> 00:25:11.000
to blow his whistle.

00:25:12.000 –> 00:25:14.000
I make my first call after about ten

00:25:14.000 –> 00:25:16.000
minutes. It’s the right call. Yeah.

00:25:17.000 –> 00:25:20.000
Judd Heath Coach, and it’s the correct call.

00:25:20.000 –> 00:25:22.000
Judd Heath Coach.

00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:25.000
Jumped up.

00:25:25.000 –> 00:25:26.000
And

00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000
so I said, I knew it.

00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:32.000
Richard, where did this young kid come from?

00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:34.000
You will never make it. I’m gonna make

00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000
sure you’re fired from the big ten. Oh

00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:39.000
my. You can’t make it. So we get

00:25:39.000 –> 00:25:40.000
through the game. Let me tell you.

00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:43.000
Doing the right thing,

00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000
even when it’s unpopular.

00:25:46.000 –> 00:25:48.000
Michigan State is on the road.

00:25:49.000 –> 00:25:52.000
The last play of the game.

00:25:52.000 –> 00:25:56.000
I’m on national TV, CBS, Billy Packer is

00:25:56.000 –> 00:25:57.000
doing the game.

00:25:57.000 –> 00:25:59.000
There’s an out of bounds play.

00:26:00.000 –> 00:26:03.000
It’s my call. It’s right on the sideline.

00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:05.000
The coach,

00:26:06.000 –> 00:26:08.000
heat code could see it certainly

00:26:09.000 –> 00:26:11.000
Iowa could see it lead house.

00:26:12.000 –> 00:26:13.000
Now, the kid barely,

00:26:14.000 –> 00:26:16.000
barely stepped on the sideline.

00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:20.000
I could have easily said

00:26:21.000 –> 00:26:23.000
I didn’t see that call.

00:26:25.000 –> 00:26:26.000
I could have said that.

00:26:27.000 –> 00:26:29.000
Do the right thing, even when it’s not

00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:31.000
poplar. Yep.

00:26:32.000 –> 00:26:33.000
Boom is a great advice.

00:26:34.000 –> 00:26:35.000
Made the call.

00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:38.000
Iowa lost a game by one.

00:26:39.000 –> 00:26:41.000
John Heathco jumps up,

00:26:42.000 –> 00:26:45.000
great call. Now wait, he’s the same guy.

00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000
The whole game that was saying you’ll never

00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:49.000
make it. You’re thinking part.

00:26:50.000 –> 00:26:50.000
And

00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:52.000
I made the right call

00:26:53.000 –> 00:26:54.000
from that point,

00:26:55.000 –> 00:26:58.000
individual, the coaches in the Big Ten, and

00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:00.000
Across the country began to say, who is

00:27:00.000 –> 00:27:02.000
this young kid? Yeah.

00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:04.000
I referred my first final four at thirty

00:27:04.000 –> 00:27:05.000
four years old.

00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:09.000
I worked seven final fours in a row.

00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:12.000
Holy smokes. In a row. That’s not normal.

00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:14.000
Not normal. You go back. I I think

00:27:14.000 –> 00:27:16.000
that’s the time has been done in the

00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:17.000
history of the game. That’s amazing.

00:27:18.000 –> 00:27:19.000
So it again,

00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:22.000
the story that I tell young people

00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:24.000
do the right thing even when it’s not

00:27:24.000 –> 00:27:24.000
popular.

00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:29.000
Do the right thing when people aren’t watching

00:27:29.000 –> 00:27:30.000
you.

00:27:31.000 –> 00:27:33.000
That’s the value system

00:27:33.000 –> 00:27:34.000
that

00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:38.000
you want to build your life around.

00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:40.000
You can’t please everyone.

00:27:41.000 –> 00:27:42.000
I’ve as superintendent.

00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:43.000
Yeah.

00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:46.000
Okay. I never tried to please.

00:27:47.000 –> 00:27:48.000
My employees,

00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:51.000
every decision that I made,

00:27:52.000 –> 00:27:53.000
I made it

00:27:54.000 –> 00:27:56.000
and the interests of the young people.

00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:00.000
Every decision when I refereed, I made it

00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:01.000
in the best interests

00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:03.000
of those players.

00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:05.000
And I would tell him upfront.

00:28:06.000 –> 00:28:08.000
I’m gonna tell you one time to get

00:28:08.000 –> 00:28:09.000
your shirt tail in.

00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:13.000
You’re not this is my game, you’re not

00:28:13.000 –> 00:28:15.000
gonna be walking around with your shirt tail

00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:16.000
out.

00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:18.000
I’m gonna tell you if I tell you

00:28:18.000 –> 00:28:19.000
to get your hands

00:28:21.000 –> 00:28:24.000
off, I’m trying to help you. Yeah. But

00:28:24.000 –> 00:28:26.000
I’m not gonna keep trust me. I’m not

00:28:26.000 –> 00:28:29.000
gonna keep telling you that. Yeah. And that’s

00:28:29.000 –> 00:28:31.000
the That was the relationship I had with

00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:32.000
coaches.

00:28:33.000 –> 00:28:35.000
I would throw my hand up, and when

00:28:35.000 –> 00:28:37.000
I said, this is it. I would listen.

00:28:37.000 –> 00:28:38.000
I never had rabbit ears.

00:28:39.000 –> 00:28:41.000
I would listen to coaches when they griped

00:28:41.000 –> 00:28:42.000
and complained.

00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:44.000
Because, you know,

00:28:44.000 –> 00:28:46.000
I had the philosophy

00:28:47.000 –> 00:28:48.000
I’m not always right.

00:28:49.000 –> 00:28:51.000
I’m not always right.

00:28:51.000 –> 00:28:52.000
And if I

00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:54.000
don’t react,

00:28:55.000 –> 00:28:57.000
But give that coach an opportunity to disagree

00:28:57.000 –> 00:29:00.000
with me, and he goes and looks at

00:29:00.000 –> 00:29:02.000
the film, he’s gonna come back and say,

00:29:02.000 –> 00:29:03.000
you know what?

00:29:04.000 –> 00:29:06.000
That that guy was Hightower, and, you know,

00:29:07.000 –> 00:29:08.000
he treated me with respect.

00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:10.000
Okay?

00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:13.000
But when I throw my hand up, and

00:29:13.000 –> 00:29:15.000
I’m the guy that started

00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:18.000
that put made this a national mechanic, when

00:29:18.000 –> 00:29:19.000
I do this,

00:29:20.000 –> 00:29:22.000
That’s it. Don’t say another word. This is

00:29:22.000 –> 00:29:23.000
your warning. That’s it.

00:29:24.000 –> 00:29:26.000
And that’s how I’ve lived my life, you

00:29:26.000 –> 00:29:26.000
know.

00:29:27.000 –> 00:29:29.000
I believe in second chance.

00:29:29.000 –> 00:29:31.000
For young people,

00:29:32.000 –> 00:29:34.000
people in general. Yeah. But I’m not gonna

00:29:34.000 –> 00:29:37.000
keep giving you chance after chance. I love

00:29:37.000 –> 00:29:38.000
that. So so what I mean, you made

00:29:38.000 –> 00:29:40.000
a ton of calls. Right? Obviously, in a

00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:43.000
in a thirty six year career, but not

00:29:43.000 –> 00:29:44.000
every one of them was the right call.

00:29:44.000 –> 00:29:45.000
So what did you do when you did

00:29:45.000 –> 00:29:47.000
mess up and missed a call? If I

00:29:47.000 –> 00:29:50.000
missed a call, and I would go in,

00:29:50.000 –> 00:29:52.000
when it was even not poplar, I’d go

00:29:52.000 –> 00:29:54.000
down I’d go and break down every

00:29:55.000 –> 00:29:56.000
every call

00:29:56.000 –> 00:29:58.000
that I So after the game. After the

00:29:58.000 –> 00:30:00.000
game. And do you wanna do a makeup

00:30:00.000 –> 00:30:01.000
call? No. No makeup.

00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:04.000
If I missed a call during the game,

00:30:04.000 –> 00:30:05.000
let me tell you what I would do.

00:30:05.000 –> 00:30:07.000
I would tell the coach coach. That’s on

00:30:07.000 –> 00:30:10.000
me. I missed that call. Yeah.

00:30:10.000 –> 00:30:12.000
I missed it. I would tell a player,

00:30:12.000 –> 00:30:14.000
but I’m not gonna keep It does make

00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:15.000
you feel better, though. I mean, we just

00:30:15.000 –> 00:30:17.000
I coach eighth grade basketball right now, and

00:30:17.000 –> 00:30:19.000
a ref the other night so that he

00:30:19.000 –> 00:30:20.000
goes, hey, Sorry. I missed that. You took

00:30:20.000 –> 00:30:22.000
ownership. And I’m like, you know what? What

00:30:22.000 –> 00:30:23.000
do you say? You know, and that and

00:30:23.000 –> 00:30:25.000
that’s the bottom line. That’s the bottom line.

00:30:25.000 –> 00:30:26.000
You know, don’t

00:30:27.000 –> 00:30:29.000
you you don’t need to alibi. You don’t

00:30:29.000 –> 00:30:30.000
need to make excuses.

00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:32.000
You don’t need to try to justify it.

00:30:32.000 –> 00:30:34.000
I missed a call. Yep. Our coach, and

00:30:34.000 –> 00:30:37.000
I tell young people when I’m working with

00:30:37.000 –> 00:30:37.000
them.

00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:40.000
Just say coach, you may be right.

00:30:40.000 –> 00:30:42.000
Even you know that

00:30:44.000 –> 00:30:45.000
you got it right. Yeah. Just say coach,

00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:46.000
you may be right.

00:30:46.000 –> 00:30:48.000
Because you’re not gonna win that moment when

00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:48.000
the temperature is high. Yeah. You’ve gotta bring

00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:49.000
the

00:30:49.000 –> 00:30:50.000
temp

00:30:56.000 –> 00:30:58.000
down. Coach, you may be right. You may

00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:00.000
be right. I didn’t say you were. That’s

00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:02.000
right. You may be right. Okay.

00:31:03.000 –> 00:31:05.000
Dean Smith was one of my,

00:31:07.000 –> 00:31:08.000
all time favorite coaches.

00:31:09.000 –> 00:31:10.000
I can’t remember we were doing a game

00:31:10.000 –> 00:31:11.000
with him

00:31:11.000 –> 00:31:12.000
And,

00:31:12.000 –> 00:31:13.000
we,

00:31:13.000 –> 00:31:15.000
one of my crew members missed a call

00:31:15.000 –> 00:31:17.000
so bad. I was a late referee, and

00:31:17.000 –> 00:31:19.000
I could I could not get him this

00:31:19.000 –> 00:31:21.000
I could not get

00:31:21.000 –> 00:31:22.000
this official

00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:24.000
to change the call.

00:31:24.000 –> 00:31:26.000
I tried to get him

00:31:27.000 –> 00:31:29.000
I called Dean Smith in stay as a

00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:30.000
coach, I I I have to,

00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:32.000
I I have to be able to live

00:31:32.000 –> 00:31:34.000
with myself. We missed that call.

00:31:34.000 –> 00:31:37.000
That was the respect that I, coach,

00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:39.000
when I received my doctorate,

00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:41.000
there were

00:31:41.000 –> 00:31:42.000
two people

00:31:43.000 –> 00:31:44.000
who reached out to me right away, and

00:31:44.000 –> 00:31:46.000
I don’t know how they found out.

00:31:46.000 –> 00:31:49.000
And congratulating me on my doctorate of education.

00:31:50.000 –> 00:31:51.000
Dean Smith,

00:31:52.000 –> 00:31:53.000
John Thompson. Wow.

00:31:54.000 –> 00:31:56.000
I think about that. Now, and and and

00:31:56.000 –> 00:31:59.000
the bottom line, see, I was not refereeing

00:31:59.000 –> 00:32:00.000
those guys

00:32:01.000 –> 00:32:01.000
consistently

00:32:02.000 –> 00:32:03.000
like what I was in the Big Ten,

00:32:03.000 –> 00:32:05.000
I would only catch those guys,

00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:08.000
in tournament play or when the ACC played

00:32:08.000 –> 00:32:11.000
the Big Ten. Yep. But they they watch.

00:32:12.000 –> 00:32:12.000
They

00:32:13.000 –> 00:32:15.000
they know who the who the good officials

00:32:15.000 –> 00:32:17.000
are. And they know

00:32:17.000 –> 00:32:18.000
every officials

00:32:21.000 –> 00:32:23.000
breaking point. Yeah.

00:32:23.000 –> 00:32:25.000
How how did you stay a student of

00:32:25.000 –> 00:32:27.000
the game in education and basketball? Because you

00:32:27.000 –> 00:32:29.000
really think about it. You’re you’re growing two

00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:32.000
careers parallel at the same time. Right? You’re

00:32:32.000 –> 00:32:33.000
growing two

00:32:34.000 –> 00:32:35.000
careers parallel.

00:32:38.000 –> 00:32:40.000
You you don’t change.

00:32:40.000 –> 00:32:41.000
Okay.

00:32:41.000 –> 00:32:44.000
And how do you raise there’s so many

00:32:44.000 –> 00:32:46.000
things as I talk to various groups I

00:32:46.000 –> 00:32:47.000
get a question

00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:49.000
on a regular basis.

00:32:49.000 –> 00:32:52.000
How are you able to keep all keep

00:32:52.000 –> 00:32:53.000
the three

00:32:54.000 –> 00:32:54.000
entities,

00:32:56.000 –> 00:32:57.000
together,

00:32:57.000 –> 00:32:59.000
and those entities

00:32:59.000 –> 00:33:00.000
of family.

00:33:02.000 –> 00:33:05.000
My professional job as an educator

00:33:06.000 –> 00:33:07.000
and my,

00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:09.000
my referee in.

00:33:11.000 –> 00:33:12.000
You don’t change.

00:33:13.000 –> 00:33:14.000
First of all, family

00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:18.000
is more important than anything else.

00:33:19.000 –> 00:33:21.000
My wife and I’ve been married forty nine

00:33:21.000 –> 00:33:22.000
years. We have two daughters,

00:33:23.000 –> 00:33:24.000
both successful.

00:33:25.000 –> 00:33:27.000
And as I was rear we were rearing

00:33:27.000 –> 00:33:30.000
our kids, both of our kids went to

00:33:30.000 –> 00:33:32.000
my school. We always believe in

00:33:33.000 –> 00:33:34.000
quality over quantity.

00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:38.000
Quality over quantity.

00:33:39.000 –> 00:33:42.000
Quality time over quantity. There are people who

00:33:42.000 –> 00:33:43.000
are together twenty four hours a day and

00:33:43.000 –> 00:33:46.000
can’t stand each other. Hightower

00:33:46.000 –> 00:33:48.000
my daughters knew,

00:33:48.000 –> 00:33:50.000
and even today,

00:33:51.000 –> 00:33:52.000
if they want me at something,

00:33:54.000 –> 00:33:57.000
They, whenever younger, they’d go in, tell my

00:33:57.000 –> 00:33:57.000
secretary,

00:33:58.000 –> 00:34:00.000
which you put this on debts.

00:34:01.000 –> 00:34:02.000
Scheduled.

00:34:03.000 –> 00:34:04.000
If they wrote it on there,

00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:07.000
it was important to them. Yeah. Now, they

00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:09.000
knew that they could go in there and

00:34:09.000 –> 00:34:11.000
write every day, you you know, you want

00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:14.000
me here. Yeah. You know, you gotta share

00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:14.000
me.

00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:17.000
But if they put something on my calendar

00:34:17.000 –> 00:34:19.000
and I had a game, Guess what?

00:34:20.000 –> 00:34:22.000
No. I got off that game. Yeah. It

00:34:22.000 –> 00:34:23.000
was family.

00:34:25.000 –> 00:34:28.000
Now, decision making, I’m in the decision making

00:34:28.000 –> 00:34:31.000
business in education. I’m in a decision making

00:34:31.000 –> 00:34:32.000
business,

00:34:33.000 –> 00:34:35.000
in referring. Yeah. By the

00:34:36.000 –> 00:34:39.000
Every second, you’re making a decision on someone’s

00:34:39.000 –> 00:34:40.000
livelihood.

00:34:41.000 –> 00:34:42.000
In education,

00:34:44.000 –> 00:34:44.000
It’s about

00:34:45.000 –> 00:34:45.000
educating

00:34:46.000 –> 00:34:48.000
kids for the next,

00:34:49.000 –> 00:34:51.000
step of their, next step in their life.

00:34:52.000 –> 00:34:53.000
Referin?

00:34:54.000 –> 00:34:56.000
I’m working with kids, and I’m making decisions

00:34:56.000 –> 00:34:57.000
about their careers.

00:34:58.000 –> 00:34:59.000
I can put them on the bench with

00:34:59.000 –> 00:35:02.000
a chief foul or a bad cough. Yep.

00:35:02.000 –> 00:35:03.000
And at the wrong time,

00:35:04.000 –> 00:35:05.000
and they’re penalized.

00:35:06.000 –> 00:35:08.000
So you have to always be cognizant

00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:10.000
of that

00:35:11.000 –> 00:35:13.000
and and keep that in the forefront.

00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:16.000
Before every game,

00:35:16.000 –> 00:35:17.000
every game,

00:35:18.000 –> 00:35:21.000
I walk I would go into the restroom

00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:23.000
by myself for a moment, and I would

00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:25.000
say a little prayer. Lord, please.

00:35:26.000 –> 00:35:27.000
Give me the

00:35:27.000 –> 00:35:29.000
wisdom, the knowledge,

00:35:30.000 –> 00:35:31.000
to not

00:35:31.000 –> 00:35:32.000
injure

00:35:33.000 –> 00:35:33.000
or hurt

00:35:34.000 –> 00:35:36.000
someone tonight. Yep.

00:35:37.000 –> 00:35:38.000
And that’s the same thing

00:35:39.000 –> 00:35:41.000
as I went to my office. Give me

00:35:41.000 –> 00:35:42.000
the wisdom knowledge.

00:35:43.000 –> 00:35:44.000
You can’t get too

00:35:46.000 –> 00:35:46.000
big,

00:35:47.000 –> 00:35:49.000
as we like to call it,

00:35:49.000 –> 00:35:51.000
see yourself as too important.

00:35:52.000 –> 00:35:55.000
For what this business is about. You’re in

00:35:55.000 –> 00:35:56.000
the people business.

00:35:56.000 –> 00:36:00.000
You’re in a helping business, your assistance business.

00:36:00.000 –> 00:36:01.000
Now, does that mean

00:36:01.000 –> 00:36:04.000
that you and allow somebody to do what

00:36:04.000 –> 00:36:06.000
the heck they want. And as I I

00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:09.000
I I I told, an individual wants,

00:36:09.000 –> 00:36:12.000
I was a young Gilliland

00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:14.000
everybody knew, no, knew that I was very

00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:16.000
religious, a religion.

00:36:16.000 –> 00:36:17.000
Yeah. And always,

00:36:18.000 –> 00:36:18.000
a

00:36:19.000 –> 00:36:20.000
priority with my family.

00:36:21.000 –> 00:36:23.000
So this guy comes in, and he is

00:36:23.000 –> 00:36:24.000
just being a first class jerk. I’m a

00:36:24.000 –> 00:36:25.000
principal.

00:36:26.000 –> 00:36:28.000
And he knew I was a first class

00:36:29.000 –> 00:36:30.000
jerk.

00:36:30.000 –> 00:36:31.000
And I said to him, I said, sir,

00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:34.000
I said, let’s let’s let’s get an understanding

00:36:34.000 –> 00:36:34.000
here.

00:36:36.000 –> 00:36:38.000
I said, ob he said, you

00:36:38.000 –> 00:36:41.000
you’re you’re religious in all of this. And

00:36:41.000 –> 00:36:43.000
I said, let’s get an understanding here.

00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:45.000
Don’t.

00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:47.000
Take

00:36:48.000 –> 00:36:48.000
my

00:36:50.000 –> 00:36:51.000
religious belief,

00:36:52.000 –> 00:36:52.000
are

00:36:53.000 –> 00:36:53.000
my kindness,

00:36:54.000 –> 00:36:55.000
as a form of weakness.

00:36:56.000 –> 00:36:58.000
If you make that statement again,

00:36:59.000 –> 00:37:00.000
you’re gonna find out

00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:02.000
just who I am.

00:37:02.000 –> 00:37:04.000
So, again, that’s extreme.

00:37:05.000 –> 00:37:06.000
Right. Right. Tell him how to know where

00:37:06.000 –> 00:37:08.000
you stand. You you’re gonna have to. Yeah.

00:37:08.000 –> 00:37:09.000
Don’t take

00:37:09.000 –> 00:37:10.000
this goodness

00:37:11.000 –> 00:37:13.000
as a form of weakness. I love that.

00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:14.000
And the same thing when I when I

00:37:14.000 –> 00:37:17.000
work with coaches. Yep. Coaches. I’m gonna listen

00:37:17.000 –> 00:37:18.000
to you for a moment.

00:37:18.000 –> 00:37:20.000
But you when I do when I give

00:37:20.000 –> 00:37:21.000
you that stop sign,

00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:25.000
that’s it. Don’t I’ve reached my limit.

00:37:26.000 –> 00:37:28.000
Don’t say another word. If you say another

00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:31.000
word, there’s something else coming. I love it.

00:37:31.000 –> 00:37:33.000
So let’s talk about the flying lineup. Let

00:37:33.000 –> 00:37:35.000
me tell you a quick story. So my

00:37:35.000 –> 00:37:37.000
grew up matt too, as I said. My,

00:37:38.000 –> 00:37:40.000
mom’s cousin was, I think, next door neighbors

00:37:40.000 –> 00:37:42.000
to Lou Henson. So so we got to

00:37:42.000 –> 00:37:42.000
know,

00:37:43.000 –> 00:37:45.000
them. And I was lucky enough in nineteen

00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:47.000
eighty nine. They had their final four dinner.

00:37:47.000 –> 00:37:49.000
I got invited. My mom and dad and

00:37:49.000 –> 00:37:52.000
I. Eighty nine were were in Seattle? Yes.

00:37:52.000 –> 00:37:53.000
Uh-huh. I was there. Yeah.

00:37:53.000 –> 00:37:55.000
So, I get to go to the the

00:37:55.000 –> 00:37:57.000
dinner back in Champagne, and, I sit next

00:37:57.000 –> 00:37:59.000
to Andy Kaufman. Oh, yes. And Randy called

00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.000
you. Thirty four, I believe. Number thirty and

00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:03.000
I got to try his,

00:38:03.000 –> 00:38:05.000
final four ring on. And it was really

00:38:05.000 –> 00:38:06.000
it was a great night. You know, I

00:38:06.000 –> 00:38:09.000
met, you know, Ken Gilliland Gail and Nick

00:38:09.000 –> 00:38:09.000
Anderson.

00:38:10.000 –> 00:38:12.000
Stephen Barto and Keno Gil both been on

00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:14.000
this podcast, which has been awesome. Good good

00:38:14.000 –> 00:38:15.000
people. I know both of them very well.

00:38:15.000 –> 00:38:18.000
But talk about the Flat Atlanta because a

00:38:18.000 –> 00:38:20.000
lot of people from Illinois listen to this.

00:38:20.000 –> 00:38:21.000
Our our Missouri friends will just have to

00:38:21.000 –> 00:38:22.000
they’ll just have to listen to it. Sure.

00:38:22.000 –> 00:38:24.000
Hightower? The flying Alana nineteen eighty nine, talk

00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:26.000
about that team and over your career. How

00:38:26.000 –> 00:38:27.000
did

00:38:27.000 –> 00:38:29.000
they rank? Would you like about him? Would

00:38:29.000 –> 00:38:31.000
you like about Liz? Let’s talk about,

00:38:31.000 –> 00:38:33.000
what was the greatest shot?

00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:37.000
Mhmm. What what what shot was that? Well,

00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:39.000
my greatest shot was the turnaround shot at

00:38:39.000 –> 00:38:41.000
the Indiana game that Nick Anderson from Half

00:38:41.000 –> 00:38:43.000
Court turns around throws it up. Who do

00:38:43.000 –> 00:38:44.000
you think was the lead referee on that

00:38:44.000 –> 00:38:46.000
game? That You got it right here. You

00:38:46.000 –> 00:38:47.000
had Hyde Hightower.

00:38:47.000 –> 00:38:49.000
And, let me tell you a little story

00:38:49.000 –> 00:38:51.000
about that game. That that play.

00:38:52.000 –> 00:38:55.000
That play. You remember Indiana went down and

00:38:55.000 –> 00:38:55.000
scored.

00:38:56.000 –> 00:38:56.000
Okay?

00:38:57.000 –> 00:38:58.000
They scored.

00:39:00.000 –> 00:39:01.000
And coach,

00:39:02.000 –> 00:39:05.000
Henson called the time out right away. Mhmm.

00:39:05.000 –> 00:39:06.000
Coach Knight,

00:39:07.000 –> 00:39:10.000
wanted all he wanted to know was how

00:39:10.000 –> 00:39:11.000
much time I was gonna put back on

00:39:11.000 –> 00:39:13.000
the clock because there was no way in

00:39:13.000 –> 00:39:15.000
the world on the baseline Yeah. Even though

00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:17.000
the kid could run. He could run. Yep.

00:39:18.000 –> 00:39:20.000
There’s no way in the world.

00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:22.000
I thought,

00:39:23.000 –> 00:39:25.000
coach and I, or anyone else thought that

00:39:25.000 –> 00:39:27.000
that ball, first of all, was gonna get

00:39:27.000 –> 00:39:30.000
across half court, and they were gonna be

00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:31.000
able to get it up and score.

00:39:32.000 –> 00:39:34.000
I was the lead referee

00:39:34.000 –> 00:39:36.000
I put the ball in playing.

00:39:36.000 –> 00:39:39.000
I saw it all. It witnessed it all.

00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:41.000
And then, of course, I went to,

00:39:42.000 –> 00:39:44.000
to the final four with them that year,

00:39:44.000 –> 00:39:45.000
in Seattle.

00:39:46.000 –> 00:39:47.000
And,

00:39:47.000 –> 00:39:50.000
oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, Michigan was there.

00:39:52.000 –> 00:39:53.000
Miskum was there,

00:39:55.000 –> 00:39:57.000
Seaton Gilliland

00:39:57.000 –> 00:39:58.000
Duke. Yeah.

00:39:59.000 –> 00:40:01.000
You see, That’s Hightower, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh,

00:40:01.000 –> 00:40:03.000
yeah. Oh, yeah. And so,

00:40:04.000 –> 00:40:04.000
I didn’t

00:40:05.000 –> 00:40:06.000
they didn’t assign

00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:08.000
me to the Illinois

00:40:09.000 –> 00:40:09.000
semifinal.

00:40:10.000 –> 00:40:10.000
Because

00:40:11.000 –> 00:40:14.000
I was from Illinois and again, all of

00:40:14.000 –> 00:40:16.000
that. You know, back then, they were very

00:40:17.000 –> 00:40:18.000
conscious and cognizant of

00:40:19.000 –> 00:40:21.000
those kinds of situation.

00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:23.000
But, you know, again,

00:40:23.000 –> 00:40:26.000
you know, a couple calls here that, coach

00:40:26.000 –> 00:40:29.000
Henson might be the one of the biggest

00:40:29.000 –> 00:40:31.000
jumps of my night when Nick Anderson made

00:40:31.000 –> 00:40:33.000
me chat. Oh my god. It’s unbelievable. So

00:40:33.000 –> 00:40:35.000
talk about Lou Hanson, the Lou Dew.

00:40:35.000 –> 00:40:37.000
Cohenson was,

00:40:38.000 –> 00:40:39.000
a great person.

00:40:39.000 –> 00:40:40.000
Yeah. Number one.

00:40:41.000 –> 00:40:42.000
He was a great humanitarian

00:40:43.000 –> 00:40:44.000
Number two,

00:40:45.000 –> 00:40:47.000
he was one of the most underrated couches

00:40:48.000 –> 00:40:49.000
in the game.

00:40:50.000 –> 00:40:51.000
Underrated.

00:40:51.000 –> 00:40:53.000
I I I just thought and and by

00:40:53.000 –> 00:40:54.000
the way, I I knew

00:40:55.000 –> 00:40:57.000
all of the coaches back then knew them

00:40:57.000 –> 00:40:58.000
all now. Yeah. Okay.

00:40:59.000 –> 00:40:59.000
Cohenson,

00:41:01.000 –> 00:41:04.000
not only was a great person, but he

00:41:04.000 –> 00:41:06.000
was a great tactician.

00:41:07.000 –> 00:41:08.000
The kids had to play

00:41:09.000 –> 00:41:10.000
defense, or they didn’t stay in the game.

00:41:10.000 –> 00:41:11.000
Now at times,

00:41:12.000 –> 00:41:13.000
you know, we would get you you guys

00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:15.000
would get upset that he would pull a

00:41:15.000 –> 00:41:16.000
guy so quickly.

00:41:16.000 –> 00:41:18.000
If you didn’t play defense,

00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:21.000
you were coming out of the game? Yep.

00:41:21.000 –> 00:41:22.000
Okay.

00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:24.000
And that’s just a bottom line. Now maybe

00:41:24.000 –> 00:41:26.000
that happened a little too often, you know,

00:41:26.000 –> 00:41:28.000
if you want to criticize.

00:41:28.000 –> 00:41:29.000
But,

00:41:30.000 –> 00:41:32.000
I I have the greatest respect

00:41:33.000 –> 00:41:34.000
for

00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:35.000
Coach Henson

00:41:35.000 –> 00:41:38.000
and what he stood for. And I did

00:41:38.000 –> 00:41:39.000
a podcast

00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:43.000
on Coach Henson, when he passed away. And,

00:41:43.000 –> 00:41:46.000
the respect that I have for that man,

00:41:47.000 –> 00:41:49.000
and what he brought to the great game.

00:41:49.000 –> 00:41:51.000
And as a human

00:41:51.000 –> 00:41:51.000
being,

00:41:52.000 –> 00:41:55.000
and his willingness to help others.

00:41:56.000 –> 00:41:58.000
And and I just think that he did

00:41:58.000 –> 00:42:00.000
not get the credit. No.

00:42:02.000 –> 00:42:05.000
Did they lose some games? Yes. They lost

00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:07.000
some close games. But when you look at

00:42:07.000 –> 00:42:08.000
his body of work,

00:42:09.000 –> 00:42:10.000
you won’t find anyone

00:42:10.000 –> 00:42:11.000
that put

00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:14.000
as comprehensive

00:42:14.000 –> 00:42:16.000
and complete body of work together

00:42:17.000 –> 00:42:18.000
as coach Hansen.

00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:20.000
Yep. Look at his overall.

00:42:22.000 –> 00:42:23.000
You know, when he was at what,

00:42:24.000 –> 00:42:24.000
centenary.

00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:25.000
Yep.

00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:27.000
A lot of people don’t know.

00:42:28.000 –> 00:42:30.000
He wouldn’t take that job list. The,

00:42:31.000 –> 00:42:33.000
integrated his coach at staff.

00:42:33.000 –> 00:42:34.000
You know,

00:42:35.000 –> 00:42:36.000
that’s the type of humanitarian

00:42:37.000 –> 00:42:39.000
Looking at first people. Look at look at

00:42:39.000 –> 00:42:41.000
no. Looking at society

00:42:41.000 –> 00:42:43.000
and what it meant. Yeah.

00:42:43.000 –> 00:42:43.000
Okay.

00:42:44.000 –> 00:42:44.000
So,

00:42:46.000 –> 00:42:47.000
just a great humanitarian

00:42:48.000 –> 00:42:49.000
Great. Humanitarian.

00:42:50.000 –> 00:42:51.000
So did you see were you around with

00:42:51.000 –> 00:42:52.000
the, FAD five?

00:42:54.000 –> 00:42:56.000
What was the greatest situation with the FAD

00:42:56.000 –> 00:42:58.000
five? Don’t tell me you’re doing that game.

00:42:58.000 –> 00:43:00.000
Was that nineteen ninety two the time out?

00:43:00.000 –> 00:43:02.000
What was what was the greatest what was

00:43:02.000 –> 00:43:04.000
the when you talk about the FAPFI, what

00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:07.000
what What are they known for the one

00:43:07.000 –> 00:43:10.000
single moment in time? Well, the time out.

00:43:10.000 –> 00:43:11.000
I was the lead referee

00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:15.000
on that game with the FAP five in

00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:16.000
New Orleans. Did you make that call? I

00:43:16.000 –> 00:43:19.000
was the lead referee and made the call.

00:43:19.000 –> 00:43:20.000
I had told,

00:43:21.000 –> 00:43:22.000
I was mad at you that night. Why

00:43:22.000 –> 00:43:24.000
is that? I was a Michigan fan at

00:43:24.000 –> 00:43:26.000
that point. I liked the FED five. Well,

00:43:26.000 –> 00:43:27.000
I did too. Let me tell you. Let

00:43:27.000 –> 00:43:29.000
me tell you about the FED five very

00:43:29.000 –> 00:43:29.000
quick. Thing.

00:43:31.000 –> 00:43:31.000
When

00:43:32.000 –> 00:43:34.000
the fab five came on the scene,

00:43:37.000 –> 00:43:37.000
They

00:43:38.000 –> 00:43:39.000
changed the culture

00:43:42.000 –> 00:43:44.000
of sports. Yeah. And

00:43:44.000 –> 00:43:45.000
society forever.

00:43:46.000 –> 00:43:47.000
Yeah.

00:43:47.000 –> 00:43:48.000
And

00:43:48.000 –> 00:43:49.000
that group,

00:43:49.000 –> 00:43:52.000
whatever you wanna say about them, we weren’t

00:43:52.000 –> 00:43:54.000
ready for

00:43:55.000 –> 00:43:56.000
they’re antics. Yeah. You know, with the lone

00:43:56.000 –> 00:43:57.000
parents,

00:43:57.000 –> 00:43:57.000
the,

00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:00.000
the different colored socks.

00:44:01.000 –> 00:44:01.000
Yeah. And,

00:44:02.000 –> 00:44:03.000
and their swagger

00:44:04.000 –> 00:44:07.000
and, their trash talk. Yeah. We

00:44:07.000 –> 00:44:09.000
you know, we weren’t ready for that.

00:44:10.000 –> 00:44:12.000
The commissioner of the Big Ten,

00:44:13.000 –> 00:44:15.000
Sent to me, you’re gonna live with that

00:44:15.000 –> 00:44:17.000
group, and there were three referees,

00:44:18.000 –> 00:44:20.000
and we were all educators We work more.

00:44:20.000 –> 00:44:21.000
He’s in your babies.

00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:24.000
You’re gonna live with them, and you’re gonna

00:44:25.000 –> 00:44:27.000
you’re you’re gonna keep them in check.

00:44:27.000 –> 00:44:28.000
And and,

00:44:30.000 –> 00:44:31.000
Jalen Rose,

00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:33.000
you know, he’s one of the smartest young

00:44:33.000 –> 00:44:35.000
people who you and

00:44:36.000 –> 00:44:37.000
he has a sense of humor.

00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:41.000
He would talk trash out there and one

00:44:41.000 –> 00:44:41.000
night,

00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:44.000
and just just a great individual,

00:44:45.000 –> 00:44:45.000
really.

00:44:46.000 –> 00:44:47.000
And so Jaylen

00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:50.000
He would do a dunk on you and

00:44:50.000 –> 00:44:52.000
get in your face and all of that.

00:44:52.000 –> 00:44:52.000
So,

00:44:53.000 –> 00:44:55.000
I’m working him

00:44:55.000 –> 00:44:56.000
at Northwestern

00:44:57.000 –> 00:44:58.000
And so I,

00:44:59.000 –> 00:45:01.000
I I got so upset with him. I

00:45:01.000 –> 00:45:03.000
grabbed him by the arm, and I took

00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:05.000
him over to Steve. Fisher, Fisher was some

00:45:05.000 –> 00:45:05.000
sin Australia,

00:45:06.000 –> 00:45:07.000
the Centrilla area.

00:45:08.000 –> 00:45:10.000
And so I said coach.

00:45:11.000 –> 00:45:12.000
I said, no,

00:45:12.000 –> 00:45:14.000
I am not gonna have Jaylen.

00:45:15.000 –> 00:45:17.000
I’m I would not call this right. I’m

00:45:17.000 –> 00:45:19.000
not gonna have number thirty four, whatever his

00:45:19.000 –> 00:45:20.000
number was. Yeah. Embarrass

00:45:21.000 –> 00:45:23.000
a player like what he did. He does

00:45:23.000 –> 00:45:24.000
that again.

00:45:25.000 –> 00:45:27.000
I’m gonna throw him out of the game.

00:45:27.000 –> 00:45:29.000
It’s not gonna be just a technical file.

00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:33.000
This is his official warning. Not only Jalen.

00:45:34.000 –> 00:45:35.000
After the game.

00:45:36.000 –> 00:45:36.000
Jalen,

00:45:37.000 –> 00:45:39.000
the, he was doing the interview. Well,

00:45:40.000 –> 00:45:41.000
I noticed that you and,

00:45:42.000 –> 00:45:43.000
referee hightower

00:45:44.000 –> 00:45:47.000
were were having a discussion tonight. What what

00:45:47.000 –> 00:45:48.000
was that all about?

00:45:49.000 –> 00:45:50.000
Only Jaylen.

00:45:50.000 –> 00:45:51.000
Well, you know how

00:45:52.000 –> 00:45:54.000
a principal Hightower is. He thought he was

00:45:54.000 –> 00:45:55.000
back in school,

00:45:55.000 –> 00:45:57.000
and he threatened me with the detention.

00:45:59.000 –> 00:46:01.000
That’s that’s Jaylen.

00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:02.000
And and,

00:46:04.000 –> 00:46:05.000
you know, the coach

00:46:06.000 –> 00:46:08.000
Joan Howard. Yeah. He was my go to

00:46:08.000 –> 00:46:10.000
guy back then, you know,

00:46:11.000 –> 00:46:14.000
I if we had an issue with with

00:46:14.000 –> 00:46:16.000
the rest of the group, which you know,

00:46:16.000 –> 00:46:18.000
there were good times. He no. No. No.

00:46:18.000 –> 00:46:19.000
No. No. No. No. No. No. He was

00:46:19.000 –> 00:46:21.000
to he was to oh, no. Not at

00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:24.000
all. We’d go to to Joanne and say,

00:46:25.000 –> 00:46:27.000
whatever his number was. In twenty five? You

00:46:27.000 –> 00:46:29.000
gotta you gotta take care of this. And

00:46:29.000 –> 00:46:30.000
he would. I mean, he

00:46:31.000 –> 00:46:33.000
you could tell that he was a leader.

00:46:34.000 –> 00:46:35.000
Yeah. He was a leader

00:46:36.000 –> 00:46:38.000
all the way back then.

00:46:39.000 –> 00:46:40.000
And so

00:46:40.000 –> 00:46:42.000
it doesn’t surprise any of us that,

00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:45.000
you know, I know he’s had he had

00:46:45.000 –> 00:46:47.000
some hard time last year and all, but

00:46:47.000 –> 00:46:48.000
that’s okay.

00:46:48.000 –> 00:46:50.000
He’s still a leader. We make mistakes,

00:46:51.000 –> 00:46:53.000
but, he is just a, a wonderful young

00:46:53.000 –> 00:46:55.000
person. So talk about the traits he saw

00:46:55.000 –> 00:46:57.000
and and some of the greatest players that,

00:46:57.000 –> 00:46:59.000
you know, obviously went through college, put in

00:46:59.000 –> 00:47:01.000
the NBA, you saw them all.

00:47:01.000 –> 00:47:03.000
Talk about those trades, but a that to

00:47:03.000 –> 00:47:05.000
the person. Listen this podcast right now. That’s

00:47:05.000 –> 00:47:07.000
in the business world or the education world,

00:47:07.000 –> 00:47:09.000
the medical world, whatever it may be. What

00:47:09.000 –> 00:47:11.000
did you see there that can be applied

00:47:11.000 –> 00:47:12.000
to the to the office.

00:47:12.000 –> 00:47:13.000
Personal Verintz.

00:47:14.000 –> 00:47:16.000
James. Gold setting.

00:47:17.000 –> 00:47:20.000
When it when it when when at the

00:47:20.000 –> 00:47:20.000
toughest

00:47:21.000 –> 00:47:21.000
moment.

00:47:22.000 –> 00:47:24.000
That’s when those individuals

00:47:25.000 –> 00:47:27.000
really showed and demonstrated.

00:47:30.000 –> 00:47:31.000
There’s true

00:47:31.000 –> 00:47:32.000
value system.

00:47:33.000 –> 00:47:36.000
And when I talk about value system, that

00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:36.000
toughness,

00:47:37.000 –> 00:47:40.000
that Gilliland that willingness to

00:47:40.000 –> 00:47:41.000
give a little extra.

00:47:43.000 –> 00:47:46.000
That willingness in and I use this with

00:47:46.000 –> 00:47:47.000
young Gilliland

00:47:47.000 –> 00:47:49.000
getting a little old now. The guy’s name

00:47:49.000 –> 00:47:52.000
was Hersha Hawkins from Bradley. Yeah. He’s one

00:47:52.000 –> 00:47:54.000
of my all time favorite players.

00:47:56.000 –> 00:47:58.000
I asked him once. He was a great

00:47:58.000 –> 00:48:01.000
player. Remember? Yep. He was the eighty eight,

00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:03.000
player of the year over Danny Manage, and

00:48:03.000 –> 00:48:06.000
my first final four with with Kansas. Yeah.

00:48:06.000 –> 00:48:08.000
Well, Danny ended up being the player of

00:48:08.000 –> 00:48:09.000
the year,

00:48:10.000 –> 00:48:11.000
and I never get into who should be

00:48:11.000 –> 00:48:13.000
the player of the new, but Hersha Hawkins

00:48:13.000 –> 00:48:14.000
really should have player of the year that

00:48:14.000 –> 00:48:15.000
year.

00:48:15.000 –> 00:48:17.000
But Hersha Hawkins was one of my all

00:48:17.000 –> 00:48:18.000
time favorites.

00:48:18.000 –> 00:48:20.000
He was one he was one of the

00:48:20.000 –> 00:48:22.000
great jump shooters, as you know.

00:48:22.000 –> 00:48:23.000
So

00:48:25.000 –> 00:48:26.000
we would have to go to be at

00:48:26.000 –> 00:48:27.000
the game

00:48:28.000 –> 00:48:30.000
an hour and a half before game time.

00:48:30.000 –> 00:48:31.000
Okay.

00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:35.000
Hershel Hawkins, if he had missed the game

00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:36.000
before.

00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:40.000
Wherever he missed the shot from,

00:48:41.000 –> 00:48:42.000
That next game,

00:48:43.000 –> 00:48:45.000
at hour and a half before game time,

00:48:46.000 –> 00:48:49.000
the lights aren’t even on yet. He’s out

00:48:49.000 –> 00:48:51.000
there practicing that shot Wow. That he missed.

00:48:52.000 –> 00:48:55.000
And I asked him when I I said,

00:48:55.000 –> 00:48:57.000
I said, I called him Hawk. I said,

00:48:57.000 –> 00:49:00.000
Hawk. I said, man, you you’re a great

00:49:00.000 –> 00:49:00.000
player.

00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:04.000
Why are you

00:49:05.000 –> 00:49:05.000
practicing?

00:49:08.000 –> 00:49:10.000
At an hour and a half before game

00:49:10.000 –> 00:49:11.000
time.

00:49:12.000 –> 00:49:15.000
And you’re coming off, and you’re you’re acting

00:49:15.000 –> 00:49:16.000
as if,

00:49:16.000 –> 00:49:17.000
here’s a screen.

00:49:18.000 –> 00:49:20.000
Here’s the jump shot.

00:49:20.000 –> 00:49:22.000
Why do you do that?

00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:23.000
He says because

00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:27.000
that shot is gonna come up again.

00:49:29.000 –> 00:49:30.000
Now, you take that

00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:32.000
in life.

00:49:32.000 –> 00:49:34.000
You learn from experiences.

00:49:35.000 –> 00:49:38.000
It’s gonna come up again. Yeah. And if

00:49:38.000 –> 00:49:39.000
you’ve rehearsed

00:49:39.000 –> 00:49:39.000
it,

00:49:40.000 –> 00:49:42.000
then you know how to react.

00:49:43.000 –> 00:49:45.000
I used to get in front of a

00:49:45.000 –> 00:49:45.000
mirror

00:49:47.000 –> 00:49:48.000
at home

00:49:48.000 –> 00:49:51.000
and rehearse my mechanics. People used to say,

00:49:51.000 –> 00:49:53.000
boy, hi, Tara. Boy, look at his mechanics.

00:49:54.000 –> 00:49:56.000
That was not by accident.

00:49:57.000 –> 00:50:00.000
You have to everything has to be in

00:50:00.000 –> 00:50:00.000
sync.

00:50:01.000 –> 00:50:03.000
And here’s the thing. When you get into

00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:05.000
that situation,

00:50:05.000 –> 00:50:07.000
you got fifty thousand

00:50:08.000 –> 00:50:09.000
people in the arena

00:50:10.000 –> 00:50:11.000
at a final four.

00:50:12.000 –> 00:50:14.000
You got millions watching.

00:50:14.000 –> 00:50:16.000
You can’t think about it.

00:50:17.000 –> 00:50:18.000
You got to

00:50:19.000 –> 00:50:19.000
react.

00:50:21.000 –> 00:50:22.000
You’re not

00:50:23.000 –> 00:50:26.000
over. You got to react to the situation

00:50:27.000 –> 00:50:27.000
at the moment.

00:50:28.000 –> 00:50:30.000
And that’s life. Mhmm.

00:50:31.000 –> 00:50:32.000
That’s life.

00:50:33.000 –> 00:50:34.000
Solid.

00:50:34.000 –> 00:50:36.000
Man, tons of takeaways.

00:50:37.000 –> 00:50:38.000
Last few questions. So you’re

00:50:39.000 –> 00:50:40.000
I talk about this all the time on

00:50:40.000 –> 00:50:42.000
these podcasts is fears.

00:50:43.000 –> 00:50:45.000
The fears we put in our mind, how

00:50:45.000 –> 00:50:46.000
many of the fears have actually blown up

00:50:46.000 –> 00:50:48.000
to the magnitude you put them in your

00:50:48.000 –> 00:50:49.000
mind to be? Well,

00:50:50.000 –> 00:50:52.000
you know, as a young

00:50:53.000 –> 00:50:53.000
person,

00:50:55.000 –> 00:50:56.000
when I was in

00:50:57.000 –> 00:50:58.000
fourth grade,

00:51:00.000 –> 00:51:01.000
My fourth grade teacher said

00:51:02.000 –> 00:51:04.000
I would never be anything.

00:51:04.000 –> 00:51:05.000
She called me dumb,

00:51:06.000 –> 00:51:08.000
come and retard it.

00:51:09.000 –> 00:51:11.000
In fourth grade in the south.

00:51:12.000 –> 00:51:13.000
My fifth grade teacher,

00:51:15.000 –> 00:51:16.000
miss Jackson,

00:51:18.000 –> 00:51:19.000
She took those spirits away.

00:51:21.000 –> 00:51:21.000
She said,

00:51:22.000 –> 00:51:24.000
you can be anything in anybody you wanna

00:51:24.000 –> 00:51:25.000
be.

00:51:26.000 –> 00:51:27.000
The fear

00:51:27.000 –> 00:51:28.000
is what

00:51:29.000 –> 00:51:31.000
you imagine it to be.

00:51:32.000 –> 00:51:33.000
I never forgot that.

00:51:34.000 –> 00:51:36.000
I never forgot that.

00:51:37.000 –> 00:51:39.000
And with it, I say you prepare

00:51:41.000 –> 00:51:42.000
for that for the

00:51:44.000 –> 00:51:44.000
uncertainties

00:51:45.000 –> 00:51:46.000
And

00:51:46.000 –> 00:51:48.000
when you get into that moment now, let

00:51:48.000 –> 00:51:50.000
me be clear with you.

00:51:50.000 –> 00:51:51.000
Before every gain,

00:51:53.000 –> 00:51:54.000
before every game.

00:51:55.000 –> 00:51:57.000
I don’t care. The

00:51:58.000 –> 00:51:59.000
the magnitude of a game, if it was

00:51:59.000 –> 00:52:03.000
a game with Lewis and Clark, and Bellville

00:52:04.000 –> 00:52:05.000
Swick at that time.

00:52:06.000 –> 00:52:07.000
I’m just using that as an example.

00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:10.000
I would have to go,

00:52:12.000 –> 00:52:14.000
to the restroom. Yeah. I would say that

00:52:14.000 –> 00:52:16.000
prayer before I walked out there because I

00:52:16.000 –> 00:52:18.000
was the nurse those were the nerds.

00:52:18.000 –> 00:52:19.000
But once,

00:52:20.000 –> 00:52:21.000
I threw that ball up.

00:52:22.000 –> 00:52:23.000
No fear.

00:52:24.000 –> 00:52:25.000
Yeah. You’re prepared.

00:52:27.000 –> 00:52:28.000
You’re prepared

00:52:29.000 –> 00:52:30.000
mentally,

00:52:31.000 –> 00:52:32.000
physically.

00:52:32.000 –> 00:52:34.000
You know the rules.

00:52:34.000 –> 00:52:35.000
Yep. And you just react.

00:52:40.000 –> 00:52:41.000
It’s so true. And then, I mean, I

00:52:41.000 –> 00:52:42.000
even said this to Matt right before we

00:52:42.000 –> 00:52:44.000
started recording this.

00:52:44.000 –> 00:52:45.000
You’re

00:52:45.000 –> 00:52:47.000
stepped outside. And I said, you know, it’s

00:52:47.000 –> 00:52:49.000
funny after three hundred and whatever, eighty five

00:52:49.000 –> 00:52:51.000
guests, you still got the little bit of

00:52:51.000 –> 00:52:54.000
the the nerves. Hightower you don’t. If you

00:52:54.000 –> 00:52:55.000
don’t, you don’t care. I mean, I heard

00:52:55.000 –> 00:52:56.000
Tiger would say that. Right? If he goes,

00:52:56.000 –> 00:52:58.000
if the day I stop being nervous on

00:52:58.000 –> 00:53:00.000
the first tee is what I’m Exactly. And,

00:53:00.000 –> 00:53:02.000
exactly. So that that that matters. That matters.

00:53:02.000 –> 00:53:03.000
So,

00:53:04.000 –> 00:53:06.000
let’s see. So when you think about,

00:53:07.000 –> 00:53:08.000
reading, how important has that been in your

00:53:08.000 –> 00:53:09.000
career?

00:53:10.000 –> 00:53:10.000
Oh,

00:53:11.000 –> 00:53:11.000
absolutely.

00:53:12.000 –> 00:53:14.000
You have to, you know, we have a

00:53:14.000 –> 00:53:16.000
we we we have a sand in church.

00:53:17.000 –> 00:53:18.000
You have to study

00:53:19.000 –> 00:53:21.000
to show yourself approved.

00:53:21.000 –> 00:53:23.000
That’s an old saying in church. Well, it’s

00:53:23.000 –> 00:53:25.000
the same thing with education.

00:53:26.000 –> 00:53:27.000
I read a lot.

00:53:28.000 –> 00:53:30.000
I don’t read just to read, but I

00:53:30.000 –> 00:53:31.000
read a ton,

00:53:32.000 –> 00:53:32.000
particularly

00:53:33.000 –> 00:53:34.000
on the subject matters.

00:53:35.000 –> 00:53:37.000
That are important to me. Yeah. Education,

00:53:38.000 –> 00:53:39.000
when I was

00:53:39.000 –> 00:53:40.000
in education,

00:53:41.000 –> 00:53:42.000
I read every

00:53:43.000 –> 00:53:46.000
article I could get my hands on on

00:53:46.000 –> 00:53:46.000
leadership,

00:53:47.000 –> 00:53:48.000
decision making,

00:53:49.000 –> 00:53:50.000
working with kids,

00:53:50.000 –> 00:53:51.000
understanding

00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:52.000
the dynamics

00:53:52.000 –> 00:53:53.000
of what

00:53:54.000 –> 00:53:56.000
I was gonna be faced with. Yep. Refering,

00:53:57.000 –> 00:53:59.000
I knew that rule book

00:54:00.000 –> 00:54:01.000
back in front.

00:54:01.000 –> 00:54:02.000
Leadership,

00:54:02.000 –> 00:54:03.000
I would always

00:54:05.000 –> 00:54:06.000
read articles

00:54:06.000 –> 00:54:07.000
about leadership

00:54:07.000 –> 00:54:09.000
and decision making

00:54:09.000 –> 00:54:10.000
Okay? Because that

00:54:11.000 –> 00:54:12.000
you learn

00:54:12.000 –> 00:54:14.000
if you can just pick up one little

00:54:14.000 –> 00:54:15.000
nugget.

00:54:15.000 –> 00:54:16.000
Yep.

00:54:16.000 –> 00:54:18.000
It’s gonna make you better at what you

00:54:18.000 –> 00:54:19.000
do. Yep.

00:54:19.000 –> 00:54:21.000
So I’ll close with this one. I’m anxious

00:54:21.000 –> 00:54:23.000
to see. I’ve never asked these questions. I

00:54:23.000 –> 00:54:24.000
just read it this morning. So I read

00:54:24.000 –> 00:54:26.000
my my deal is at least ten pages

00:54:26.000 –> 00:54:27.000
a day. Every day. If I can do

00:54:27.000 –> 00:54:28.000
that, you’re gonna read a lot of books.

00:54:28.000 –> 00:54:30.000
Mhmm. And so I read this today, and

00:54:30.000 –> 00:54:31.000
it was it made me think. I sent

00:54:31.000 –> 00:54:33.000
it to a couple buddies, but it said,

00:54:33.000 –> 00:54:35.000
you know, basically be careful of the feedback

00:54:35.000 –> 00:54:37.000
that you take. Not everything is for you.

00:54:37.000 –> 00:54:38.000
Maybe maybe it’s for you, maybe it’s for

00:54:38.000 –> 00:54:40.000
me, but it it may not be for

00:54:40.000 –> 00:54:42.000
both of us. Right? And it said be

00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:42.000
careful

00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:45.000
because the boiling water that hardens the egg

00:54:45.000 –> 00:54:47.000
softens the carrot.

00:54:47.000 –> 00:54:48.000
So when you hear that, what do you

00:54:48.000 –> 00:54:51.000
think? Well, when I when I see that

00:54:51.000 –> 00:54:53.000
in when I when I when I think

00:54:53.000 –> 00:54:54.000
of it, when I see it, when I

00:54:54.000 –> 00:54:55.000
I believe that,

00:54:56.000 –> 00:54:59.000
you listen, you never not listen.

00:55:02.000 –> 00:55:04.000
Okay. Yeah. But you better have

00:55:05.000 –> 00:55:07.000
the intestinal fortitude and the smartness to be

00:55:07.000 –> 00:55:08.000
able to decipher.

00:55:09.000 –> 00:55:12.000
That’s the big difference right there. Yep.

00:55:12.000 –> 00:55:14.000
Mister Harshberger, my eighth grade history teacher said

00:55:14.000 –> 00:55:17.000
you get two ears, one mouth, using proportional.

00:55:17.000 –> 00:55:19.000
You got it. Doctor Ed Hightower. Man, this

00:55:19.000 –> 00:55:21.000
has been an absolute blast. Thanks for being

00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:22.000
with me, man. Pleasure to be on my

00:55:22.000 –> 00:55:23.000
mind, Brett. Thanks for being on the circuit

00:55:23.000 –> 00:55:25.000
of success. You got it, babe. Thank you.