I first heard Kelsey speak during his 2017 PyCon keynote.
He's an amazing speaker, and I knew right then I wanted to hear more about what he does and hear more of his story.

We discuss testing, of course, but we take it further and discuss:

• tests for large systems, like kubernetes
• Testing in real world scenarios with all the configuration and everything
• Becoming a complete engineer by thinking about the end to end flow from the users perspective
• Learning from other roles, and the value of roles to allow focus and expertise
• We even get into Chaos Engineering and testing live systems.

Special Guest: Kelsey Hightower.

Sponsored By:

• PyCharm Professional: If you value your time, you owe it to yourself to try PyCharm. The team has set up a link just for Test & Code listeners. If you use the link [testandcode.com/pycharm](http://testandcode.com/pycharm), you can try PyCharm Professional for free for 3 months. This offer is only good until Sept 1, so don't forget. Plus using the link (I'll also have it in the show notes) lets PyCharm know that supporting Test & Code is a good thing. Promo Code: TESTANDCODE22