Ashley, Donald, and James cover a lot of ground in this episode. They kick things off with the story of Leslie Peltier, a self-taught stargazer from Ohio, before diving into a deeper conversation about environmentalism. Donald raises concerns about how today’s climate discourse can feel paralyzing, especially for young people, and argues that instead of backing away from nature, we need to find ways to work with it.

The conversation broadens into bigger questions about collapse — not dramatic doomsday stuff, but a slower kind of breakdown where complex systems just can’t hold themselves together anymore. That idea leads them into American history, particularly the legacy of Jacksonian democracy and the ongoing tug-of-war between centralized power and local control.

They touch on everything from the role of tradition to the limits of liberalism, and explore what it might take to build a coherent moral framework in a fractured time. It’s a thoughtful, wide-ranging discussion about how we got here — and where we might be headed.

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