Revolution Now! with Peter Joseph | Ep 54 | Feb 9th 2025
Feb 9, 2025
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In this conversation, Alfie Kohn, a renowned author specializing in human behavior and education, dives deep into the destructive nature of competition. He exposes how competitive practices in schools and beyond harm psychological health, relationships, and creativity. Kohn advocates for cooperative approaches as a remedy, challenging the cultural norms that idolize competition. The discussion also critiques current economic structures, emphasizing the need for collaboration over individualism to foster genuine learning and community building.
The podcast critiques the reliance on policy reforms to address capitalism's systemic issues, advocating for deeper paradigm shifts instead.
It emphasizes the destructive influence of competition on community cohesion and well-being, highlighting the need for cooperative models.
Listeners are urged to adopt values prioritizing collaboration and sustainability to facilitate a transition toward a post-capitalist economy.
The conversation introduces the challenge of 'anti-capitalist capitalists,' discouraging superficial critiques that fail to address capitalism's core flaws.
Deep dives
Clarifying the Collaborative Post-Capitalist Economy
The podcast addresses the concept of a collaborative post-capitalist parallel economy, emphasizing the complexity of transitioning from the current capitalist system. It acknowledges the feedback received from audiences about the nature of social change and how mere policy proposals often fall short in addressing the root issues of capitalism. Although some activists envision a new society built on sustainability and social justice, the underlying problems of the market economy—including inherent exploitation and a reliance on competition—must first be acknowledged. Understanding that meaningful change cannot just be about enforcing regulations or policy but requires a deeper paradigm shift is highlighted as crucial for creating lasting impact.
The Limitations of Policy Approaches
The discussion critiques the effectiveness of solely relying on policy-based approaches to drive system change, arguing that such methods often overlook the entrenched nature of capitalism. Many policies are proposed out of good intentions but fail to address the fundamental issues of market dynamics that incentivize competition and exploitation. Additionally, the reliance on policy can divert attention and resources from working towards more transformative economic systems, suggesting that grassroots community building and cooperative efforts hold promise for more sustained change. The complexity of societal transitions means that activists should prepare for non-linear, unpredictable outcomes, making long-term visions potentially counterproductive if they do not adapt accordingly to the evolving landscape.
The Role of Competition in Society
The podcast delves into competition's pervasive influence on modern culture, identifying it as a significant public health issue that adversely affects well-being and community cohesion. The narrative compares competition to other societal problems, such as drug addiction, contending it generates widespread and destructive impacts. As such, understanding competition as a socially detrimental force is essential to grasp the need for cultural and economic transformation. The discussion also posits that mere critiques of competition are ineffective unless they are coupled with actionable solutions that promote cooperative models designed to respect human dignity and promote holistic progress.
The Need for New Value Systems
A fundamental aspect of transitioning to a post-capitalist economy includes developing new values and practices that eschew competitive mindsets. The podcast notes that for systems change to be effective, it is critical that individuals begin to adopt perspectives that prioritize collaboration, sustainability, and mutual support over individualistic competition. This shift in values would ideally manifest in various arenas, including education, where cooperative learning methods can help foster collaboration rather than division. By instilling these values in future generations, there is potential to recreate the societal blueprint that cultivates a sustainable and socially just economy.
The Complexity of Transitioning Economies
The podcast underscores the inherent complexity and indeterminacy involved in transitioning economies from capitalism to more cooperative, sustainable models. It emphasizes that the unpredictable nature of social systems means that established goals can often be secondary to the unforeseen dynamics that play out during transitional periods. Activists are encouraged to remain adaptive and strategically flexible as they navigate these complexities, reinforcing the idea that advancing towards a new economic model requires engaging in the intricate dance of systemic change. Recognizing the limitations of absolute change also suggests the necessity of small, incremental shifts that collectively build momentum toward a larger transformative vision.
Challenging Anti-Capitalist Capitalists
The conversation introduces the concept of 'anti-capitalist capitalists'—individuals who critique capitalism yet still advocate for solutions that do not confront the fundamental flaws of the capitalist system, such as market-driven approaches. This critique points to the need for individuals to acknowledge the inseparability of money and markets from capitalism itself, thus framing market economy as the core issue that necessitates a radical rethinking. This dialogue invites listeners to evaluate their understanding of economic systems critically, questioning whether proposed reforms genuinely address the systemic roots of social and environmental injustices. Only through this recognition can more effective and sustainable solutions be pursued in alignment with post-capitalist ideals.
Integrating Human Behavior into Economic Models
The podcast emphasizes that understanding human behavior is essential when discussing economic models and societal transitions. Drawing from research in psychology and social dynamics, it emphasizes how deeply ingrained competitive behaviors can be counterproductive not only for individual well-being but also for collective progress. Educating society about these behaviors and their implications can inspire a shift towards more collaborative frameworks. This shift aligns with the idea that if society aims for true change, it must fundamentally rethink not just economic structures, but also the very values that shape interpersonal and community relationships.
Community Corruption of Competition
The podcast concludes by reflecting on how competition shapes not only economic interactions but also community dynamics. It raises concerns about how competitive systems breed distrust and rivalry even among friends and neighbors, leading to a community environment void of mutual support. This commentary serves as a stark reminder that societal structures fostering competition can inadvertently lead to social dissolution rather than unity. The call to action encourages listeners to seek collaborative frameworks in their local communities, reinforcing the notion that meaningful change requires re-establishing genuine relationships built on cooperation rather than competition.
In this (2 hour+ !) episode of Revolution Now (Episode 54), Peter Joseph examines the complexities of systemic transition and the limitations of reformist approaches to change, including a critical review of Jason Hickel’s work. The episode concludes with a 40-minute conversation with Alfie Kohn on the destructive nature of competition.
Key topics include:
-Defining capitalism in a coherent and precise way.
-The strategic foundation of the Integral Parallel Economy project.
-The importance of out-system leverage points in driving meaningful change.
-Value distortions within market economics (exchange vs use)
-Why negative human behaviors are often mislabeled as human nature.
-The common failures of social movements and the dangers of group identity. And more.
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