512. Time, Space, and the Miraculous | Dr. Brian Keating
Jan 6, 2025
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Dr. Brian Keating, a prominent experimental cosmologist and professor, brings his expertise to a fascinating discussion on science and ethics. He explains the deep connection between awe and knowledge, emphasizing how emotional experiences enhance scientific understanding. They explore the ethical responsibilities of scientists and the importance of truth in research. Keating shares insights on balancing empirical evidence with philosophical inquiry, as well as the need for sacrifice in personal growth and community betterment.
Dr. Brian Keating emphasizes the necessity of awe in human psychology and its diminishing presence due to light pollution.
The podcast explores the concept of scientific inquiry as an ethical enterprise, highlighting the importance of aligning science with moral principles.
A comparison is made between the scientific and poetic appreciation of the cosmos, suggesting a dual perspective enhances understanding.
The discussion frames science as an 'infinite game,' advocating for nurturing curiosity and wonder over merely pursuing finite goals.
Deep dives
Announcement of New Book and Tour
The speaker announces the publication of their new book, 'We Who Wrestle With God,' which has achieved status as a New York Times bestseller. Excitement about the book comes with plans for a tour across the United States starting in December, focusing on concepts related to stories from the Old Testament. The tour aims to explain the significance of these stories while drawing practical implications for behavior and attention in real-world applications. More information about the tour can be found on the author's official website.
Cosmology Courses at Peterson Academy
Dr. Brian Keating is highlighted for his role in teaching cosmology courses at Peterson Academy, where he has recorded two courses focused on astronomy and cosmology. The discussion emphasizes the success of providing high-quality, low-cost education to a wide audience, having attracted around 40,000 students so far. Keating's courses aim to make complex cosmic concepts accessible, reminding listeners that cosmology, as one of the oldest sciences, is inherently fascinating and integral to human curiosity. The speaker expresses satisfaction with the project and its implications for mass education.
The Intersection of Science and Ethics
The relationship between science and ethics is examined, suggesting that scientific inquiry must operate within an ethical framework. It is argued that the determination of relevant facts and their interpretation is fundamentally an ethical enterprise, implying that genuine science is predicated on a pursuit of truth and beauty in service to humanity. The speaker emphasizes that scientists bear a responsibility to prioritize ethical considerations in their work, thereby advocating for the alignment of scientific methods with moral principles. This notion challenges the perception of science as a strictly value-free endeavor.
The Value of Awe and Curiosity in Cosmology
The discussion shifts to the experience of awe associated with observing the night sky, considering its significance for human psychology and development. It reflects on how access to the night sky has diminished due to light pollution and the consequent loss of wonder that such observations can evoke. The notion of awe is linked to the exposure to beauty in cosmology, suggesting that engaging with vast cosmic phenomena fosters curiosity and a deeper understanding of existence. The conversation highlights how this intrinsic sense of wonder has historically marked humanity's relationship with the cosmos.
The Tension Between Scientists and Poets
A comparison is drawn between the perspectives of scientists and poets, focusing on the different ways they appreciate the cosmos. Richard Feynman's view, which advocates for a materialistic understanding of celestial bodies, contrasts with the poetic appreciation that celebrates the beauty of the universe beyond its scientific explanation. The dialogue suggests the importance of integrating both scientific inquiry and poetic wonder to fully appreciate and understand the cosmos. This dual perspective enriches the discourse around science, urging an appreciation for both empirical knowledge and artistic interpretations.
Science as an Infinite Game
The concept of science is framed as an 'infinite game,' where the pursuit of knowledge and truth is never complete, akin to an ongoing quest. The speaker elaborates on how scientists often focus on finite goals, such as achieving recognition or completing research, which may detract from their ability to cultivate curiosity and wonder. By prioritizing short-term achievements over the broader quest for understanding, scientists risk losing sight of their original passion for inquiry. The conversation underscores the importance of fostering a mindset that embraces both the challenges and joys of continual exploration in science.
Tradition, Ethics, and Learning in Science
A discussion unfolds around the importance of tradition and discipline in shaping ethical conduct and integrity within the scientific community. It is noted that many scientists lack formal training in ethical considerations, thereby requiring a cultural shift towards incorporating values in scientific practice. The speaker advocates for awareness of the historical and moral implications of scientific work, stressing that a reliance on personal ethics is often insufficient without a broader educational framework. This recognition is posited as vital for fostering responsible scientific inquiry that benefits society at large.
Jordan Peterson sits down with experimental cosmologist Dr. Brian Keating. They discuss the importance of awe for the human spirit, the fundamental ethos behind all true science, the idea of the useless genius, and the necessity of sacrifice for improvement of the self and the broader community.
Brian Keating is a Professor of Physics and an experimental cosmologist. He works on observations of the cosmic microwave background, the leftover heat from the Big Bang, and is the Principal Investigator of the Simons Observatory, located at a 17,000-foot elevation in the Chilean Atacama desert. He received his PhD from Brown in 2000 and is a distinguished professor of physics at the University of California, San Diego. He is the author of two books and has produced the first-ever audiobook by his intellectual hero, Galileo Galilei, “The Dialogue on Two World Systems.” He hosts the “INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE” podcast and teaches cosmology and astronomy at Peterson Academy. He is a Fellow of the American Physical Society, and in 2024, he was invested as a member of the American Academy of Sciences and Letters.
This episode was filmed on December 5th, 2024.
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For Dr. Brian Keating:
Please subscribe to Brian’s YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/DrBrianKeating
INTO THE IMPOSSIBLE https://briankeating.com/podcast/
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Read these books by Dr. Brian Keating
Losing the Nobel Prize https://a.co/d/1oobu0T
Think Like a Nobel Prize Winner https://a.co/d/c6khVaZ
Galileo Galilei’s Dialogue https://a.co/d/8QA2a04
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