Author and podcaster Michael Malice joins Jordan B. Peterson to discuss his latest book, 'The White Pill.' They delve into the philosophy of Ayn Rand, anarchism, the atrocities of Czarist Russia, and the cyclical allure of utopian visions. They also explore the roots of communism, the cruel nature of totalitarian regimes, the importance of online privacy, and the morality of God. Other topics include individualism, selfishness in child development, creating a voluntary hierarchical society, the role of culture in shaping society, and the concept of private property.
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Quick takeaways
The podcast sheds light on the brutal consequences of the Soviet era and the catastrophic nature of the system, highlighting the importance of voluntary association as an alternative to oppressive government structures.
The episode explores the hardships faced by individuals in the Soviet Union, revealing the oppressive tactics used by the state, such as denunciations, evictions, and punishing forced labor.
The podcast delves into the narcissistic and idealistic mindset of totalitarian regimes and their intellectuals, discussing their sadistic tendencies and the devastating impact of the culture of lies and betrayals.
The episode reflects on the power of non-conformity, emphasizing that even a small group of dissenters can make a significant impact in challenging oppressive regimes.
The podcast emphasizes the importance of voluntary association, individual integrity, and the principles of minimum necessary force and private property in creating a harmonious society.
Deep dives
The Catastrophes of the Soviet Era
The podcast episode discusses the brutal and dire consequences of the Soviet era, shedding light on the catastrophic system and its eventual end. The narrator begins by mentioning Michael Melis' book, "The White Pill," which provides a detailed account of the Soviet regime's horrors. The episode also explores the conceptualization of social and psychological relations without oppressive government structures, emphasizing the importance of voluntary association as an alternative to power and compulsion.
The Brutality and Harsh Living Conditions
The podcast delves into the brutality and hardships faced by individuals in the Soviet Union. It highlights examples from Michael Melis' book, including the testimonies of anarchists Emma Goldman and Alexander Berkman, who initially had hopes for a workers' revolution and a better society. However, they ultimately left the Soviet Union in disillusionment and contended with dire living conditions like cramped housing, loss of personal property, and extreme scarcity of food. The episode reveals the oppressive tactics used by the state, such as denunciations, evictions, and punishing forced labor.
The Totalitarian Mindset and Sadism
The podcast explores the mindset of totalitarian regimes and the intellectuals who championed them. It highlights their narcissistic and idealistic tendencies, fueled by the belief that their grand ideas are superior to reality. The episode suggests that this mindset, coupled with the allure of absolute power, can lead to sadism. The narrator draws examples from history, such as Lenin's statement on liberty being a luxury and Stalin's encouragement of increasing cruelty. The discussion also touches on the devastating impact of the culture of lies and betrayals, where even intimate relationships were suspect and love became a threat.
The Power of Non-conformity and Hope for the Future
The podcast concludes with a reflection on the power of non-conformity and the potential for positive change. It emphasizes that a small group of dissenters, who refuse to participate in the lie and uphold their integrity, can make a significant impact. The episode cites examples like the Polish Solidarity movement, which successfully challenged the Soviet regime, despite not having the majority. This discussion challenges the notion that only large numbers can drive change, highlighting that even a handful of individuals standing against oppression can shape a better future.
The Importance of Voluntary Association and Individual Integrity
The podcast discusses the importance of voluntary association and individual integrity in creating a harmonious and optimized social organization. It emphasizes the need for relationships and interactions to be based on voluntary consent and the preservation of individual rights. The host argues that interactions should be governed by the principles of minimum necessary force and the restoration of peace if someone violates the conditions necessary for voluntary association. The concept of private property is also highlighted as a means to define ownership and regulate interactions within a domain.
The Role of Self-Interest and Individualism in Society
The episode explores the role of self-interest and individualism in society. It highlights the distinction between self-interest motivated by comparative status-seeking and self-interest guided by personal values and integrity. The host argues that society thrives when individuals pursue their self-interest in alignment with a broader framework of integrity and the optimization of relationships. The principles of voluntary consent and constitutional freedom are seen as essential to preserve individual rights and promote positive social interactions.
The Challenges of Maintaining Ordered Freedom
The podcast addresses the challenges of maintaining ordered freedom in society. It acknowledges the potential threats posed by individuals who do not play fair and violate the principles necessary for voluntary association. The host highlights the need for a minimum necessary force to restore peace and protect the integrity of relationships. The importance of responsible decision-making and the pursuit of long-term goals is also emphasized as a means to counteract short-term hedonism and maintain a stable and harmonious society.
The importance of sacrificing short-term gratification for long-term goals
The podcast explores the significance of sacrificing short-term gratification for long-term goals. It emphasizes the importance of making choices that align with long-term interests and aspirations rather than succumbing to immediate pleasures. The discussion highlights the challenges individuals face in overcoming high time preference, wherein they prioritize immediate gratification over long-term benefits. By discussing examples like inner-city children and their decision-making tendencies, the podcast emphasizes the necessity of cultivating a long-term perspective for personal growth and societal harmony.
The value of voluntary collaboration and individual responsibility
The episode emphasizes the value of voluntary collaboration and individual responsibility in building a harmonious society. It suggests that hierarchies and structures like those found in organizations such as Starbucks emerge voluntarily through the collective efforts of individuals choosing to work together. The importance of maintaining strong personal relationships, fulfilling obligations to family and loved ones, and actively participating in society is highlighted. The discussion also explores the concept of infusing the present moment with a sense of eternity, emphasizing the idea of living not just for the present but for the longest possible time span. It presents an alternative to dogmatic utopianism and highlights the significance of individual freedom, responsibility, and ethical decision-making in creating a better future.
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down in-person with author and podcaster, Michael Malice. They discuss his latest book, “The White Pill.” From this they explore the philosophy of Ayn Rand, anarchism, the history and rebranded atrocities of Czarist Russia, and why utopian visions cyclically entice generations of people, despite leaving each one devastated for their commitment.
Michael Malice is the author of “Dear Reader: The Unauthorized Autobiography of Kim Jong Il” and The New Right: A Journey to the Fringe of American Politics,” “The White Pill,” and organizer of “The Anarchist Handbook.” He is also the subject of the graphic novel “Ego & Hubris,” written by the late Harvey Pekar of American Splendor fame. He is the host of “YOUR WELCOME” with Michael Malice. Malice has co-authored books with several prominent personalities, including “Made in America” (the New York Times best selling autobiography of UFC Hall of Famer Matt Hughes), “Concierge Confidential” (one of NPR’s top 5 celebrity books of the year), and “Black Man, White House” (comedian D. L. Hughley’s satirical look at the Obama years, a New York Times best seller). He is also the founding editor of “Overheard in New York.”
- Links -
For Michael Malice:
The White Pill (Book) https://www.amazon.com/White-Pill-Tale-Good-Evil/dp/B0BNZ7XZ5T/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1703176917&sr=1-1
On X twitter.com/michaelmalice
On Locals Malice.locals.com
On Youtube https://www.youtube.com/michaelmaliceofficial
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