What happens when an organization removes all managers—and proves that freedom and accountability can thrive together?

In this episode of The Conscious Capitalists, hosts Timothy Henry and Raj Sisodia sit down with Doug Kirkpatrick, founding financial controller at Morningstar—the world’s largest tomato processor—and a leading voice in the global movement for organizational self-management.

Doug shares how Morningstar eliminated traditional hierarchies to build a self-managed system rooted in clarity, trust, and purpose. Drawing from his early experience that ignited a lifelong questioning of authority, Doug walks us through the foundational principles that continue to guide Morningstar’s success—from dynamic budgeting to emergent leadership and personal responsibility.

As self-management principles spread across industries and sectors, Doug reflects on the broader potential of this approach to not only transform how organizations operate—but to reshape how we live, lead, and relate to one another. His insights reveal how empathy, courage, and radical trust can redefine capitalism for the better.

Listeners will gain insights into:

How Morningstar functions without bosses or traditional hierarchy
The first-grade moment that inspired Doug’s journey toward self-management
The mechanics of dynamic budgeting and decentralized decision-making
Why empathy and natural leadership are essential in self-managed teams
How self-management fosters agility, resilience, and innovation
The personal and societal impact of values-based, self-led systems

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For transcripts and show notes, please go to: https://www.theconsciouscapitalists.com

This show is presented by Conscious Capitalism, Inc. (https://www.consciouscapitalism.org/) and is produced by Rainbow Creative (https://www.rainbowcreative.co/) with Matthew Jones as Executive Producer, Rithu Jagannath as Lead Producer, and Nathan Wheatley as Editor.

Thank you for your support!

- Timothy & Raj

Time Stamps

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:42 Introducing Doug Kirkpatrick
02:15 Doug's First Grade Story
04:10 Morningstar and Self-Management Principles
07:27 Implementing Self-Management at Morningstar
09:22 Financial Management in a Self-Managed Enterprise
17:05 The Role of Leadership and Natural Leadership
20:47 Hiring and Empowerment in a Self-Managed Organization
24:55 Commitments and Colleague Letters of Understanding
31:39 Intensive Onboarding and Continuous Development
33:06 Innovative Organizational Models
34:23 Exploring Holacracy and Simple Rules
37:14 Impact of Self-Management Beyond Work
40:13 Morningstar's Resilience During COVID-19
43:05 Handling Business Challenges and Legal Issues
45:21 Self-Management and Conscious Capitalism
50:40 Leadership and Empathy in Self-Management
59:17 Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts

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