In this podcast, RevDem assistant editor Teodora Miljojkovic interview Dr Ana Bobić (Référendaire to Advocate General Tamara Capeta at the Court of Justice of the European Union, and previously post-doctoral researcher at the Hertie School of Governance) on whether primacy and the Rule of Law crisis can be separated. They also discuss the benefits of a theory of constitutional pluralism that adheres to a normative core for judicial dialogue and democratic legitimacy in the EU.