Paul Vanderklay on Peterson, Vervaeke, and why Sam Harris is wrong
Aug 24, 2020
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Minister Paul Vanderklay discusses Jordan Peterson's, John Vervaeke's, and Jonathan Pageau's influence on 'new Christianity.' Topics include the role of Christianity in society, the concept of resurrection, the story of doubt and faith, the effectiveness of Jordan Peterson as an evangelist, self-tyranny and societal organization, and the allegorical truth behind pacifying the lions.
The podcast explores the influence of Jordan Peterson, Jonathan Pageau, and John Vervaeke on the concept of 'new Christianity' and its revival in contemporary society.
It discusses the importance of narratives and symbols in Christianity, emphasizing their power in conveying truth and shaping the Christian faith.
The episode highlights the limitations of a purely secular worldview and the need for a coherent belief system to address existential questions and find meaning in life.
Deep dives
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The Intersection of Jordan Peterson, YouTube, and Christianity
The podcast features a minister from the Christian Reform Church of North America discussing his YouTube videos on Jordan Peterson's work and the intersection of Peterson's ideas with Christianity. He explores the influence of Peterson, Jonathan Pajos, and John Vervake, highlighting their different approaches and perspectives. The conversations sparked by these videos led to local meetups, the creation of a discord server, and the announcement of an online church community called Estuary. These meaningful conversations aim to address the meaning crisis in the modern world.
Secular Christianity and the Revival of Religion
The conversation delves into the concept of secular Christianity, which is referred to as a religion that isn't a religion. The participants discuss how Christianity continues to shape Western society, even as religious practice declines. They explore the role of Jordan Peterson's work in reviving interest in Christianity and the challenges of defining religion in the modern era. They also touch upon the limitations of atheism and the growing recognition of religion's significance in human life and the search for meaning.
The Power of Symbols and Stories in Christianity
The podcast episode explores the significance of symbols and stories in Christianity. It emphasizes that Christianity is not just about rational proofs or scientific evidence, but rather about the power of narratives and the truth they convey. It discusses how miracles and logical claims, such as the resurrection, play a crucial role in shaping the Christian faith. The episode also delves into the idea that rationality alone cannot fully explain human behavior and the complexities of human existence. It argues that Christianity offers a unique understanding of the world and provides a framework for healing, forgiveness, and transformation.
Secularity and the Need for a New Operating System
Another key point in the podcast episode is the examination of the influence of secularity on Western society and the need for a new operating system. It highlights the limitations of a purely secular worldview and its failure to address the existential questions and challenges faced by individuals. The episode discusses how secularism, while affording power through scientific advancements, has left a missing segment in the human operating system. It suggests that a spiritual component, such as a coherent belief system, is necessary for individuals to find meaning, purpose, and navigate the complexities of life. The episode also touches upon the growing interest in spirituality and religious themes, as seen in figures like Jordan Peterson, who, despite not being a Christian himself, has sparked conversations and interest in Christianity.
Paul Vanderklay is a minister in the Christian Reformed Church of North America. In this conversation we talk about Jordan Peterson's / John Vervaeke's / Jonathan Pageau's and Sam Harris' influence on "new Christianity."
This wasn't going to be releaseed because Paul Vanderklay and I had our schedule's jumbled; meaning, I had simultaneous people vying for my attention due to double-booking meetings and as a result, am not as present as I would have liked to be. However, due to a few requests I'm releasing and hopefully you enjoy, since Peter does a superlative job in my absence (despite the issues with the sound quality). If you'd like Part 2 with Paul Vanderklay, let me know and leave your questions for him below. - Curt Jaimungal
PAUL VANDERKLAY YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGsDIP_K6J6VSTqlq-9IPlg Twitter: https://twitter.com/PaulVanderKlay
JOHN VERVAEKE YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke
JONATHAN PAGEAU YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtCTSf3UwRU14nYWr_xm-dQ Twitter: https://twitter.com/PageauJonathan
0:00:00 Introduction to Paul Vanderklay 0:02:55 What are the pros and cons of Jordan Peterson's, John Vervaeke's, and Jonathan Pageau's approaches? 0:08:10 How Christian is this "new Christianity" put forward by people like Peterson, and Jung? 0:10:04 Is this the same old debate that Dostoevsky / Nietzsche referred to before the 1900's? 0:13:15 On Solzhenitsyn and the new definition of "religion" 0:16:32 What makes someone a Christian? 0:20:42 What is God? (thoughts on the Sam Harris / Peterson debate) 0:24:24 Deriding God by analogizing him to "Zeus" is incorrect 0:27:30 What's the relationship between Christianity, Secularism, and the State 0:34:16 Can you rationally prove God's existence? 0:44:40 Is Sam Harris a Christian? 0:47:47 How does "religion without religion" make sense? 0:53:19 Does freedom just mean "more choice"?