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The Seen and the Unseen - hosted by Amit Varma
Ep 353: Apar Gupta Fights the Good Fight
Oct 30, 2023
Apar Gupta, an advocate for digital rights in India, joins Amit Varma to discuss the impact of technology on our rights, the need for regulatory institutions, flaws in crony capitalism, the addictive nature of social media, their personal journey with technology, landmark cases on rights in India, and the power centralized in the Indian constitution.
04:44:12
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Quick takeaways
- Technology has encouraged shallow engagement and amplified social anger, leading to a focus on polarization and a race to the bottom.
- Deep and meaningful engagement is essential for cultural and social change.
- Critical evaluation of technology and its impact on society is necessary to ensure it serves the greater good.
- Access to technology at a young age shaped the speaker's interests, skills, and personality.
- The speaker's journey involved personal reflection, purpose-seeking, and a desire for making a positive impact.
- Full play advocacy, including collaboration with stakeholders beyond the legal system, is important for protecting digital rights in the technological era.
Deep dives
Influence of Technology and Politics on Social Anger
Technology has played a significant role in shaping social anger, with platforms encouraging shallow engagement that amplifies the worst instincts of human nature. This has led to a race to the bottom and a focus on anger and polarization. Additionally, political parties have often capitalized on this anger to gain power, further fueling social divisions. However, there is still hope in appealing to the better angels of human nature and fostering deep engagement through meaningful content. This can lead to action and a revitalization of aspirational politics that includes and addresses the concerns of all sections of society. The need for critical evaluation of technology and its impact on society is also crucial, as it can either exacerbate existing problems or provide solutions. An examination of intent, power dynamics, and unintended consequences is necessary to ensure that technology is harnessed for the greater good of society.
Tapping into the Deep Engagement of People
While shallow engagement and consumption of content is prevalent in today's social media landscape, there is a growing craving for depth and meaningful engagement. People desire content that offers substance and fosters a deeper understanding of various topics. This deeper engagement has the potential to lead to action and is essential for cultural and social change. While shallow engagement may dominate the majority of online content, there is a significant audience that seeks out deep and meaningful content, whether it be through podcasts, YouTube channels, or other platforms. By recognizing and catering to the need for depth, creators can have a positive impact and contribute to building a more informed, engaged, and active society.
Critically Evaluating Technology and Politics
A critical evaluation of technology is necessary, as it can either amplify or address social anger and divisions. The impact of technology on society is often influenced by political motivations and power dynamics. There is a need to question the intent and incentives of both the state and technology companies, as they play a significant role in shaping societal narratives and values. Balancing technological advancements with ethical considerations is crucial to ensure that technology serves the greater good. Additionally, political parties need to recognize the influence they hold and strive to foster greater social trust and engagement by appealing to shared values and aspirations. Only through critical evaluation and meaningful engagement can technology and politics contribute to positive societal change.
Early access to technology and personal development
Access to technology at a young age allowed the speaker to discover their true interests and skills. It provided a sense of autonomy and allowed for self-expression. The speaker engaged in activities like building computers, reading, music piracy, and participating in clubs and competitions. They compensated for perceived shortcomings by putting in extra effort in areas they wanted to improve. Technology and the internet played a crucial role in shaping the speaker's personality and providing opportunities for growth.
Finding a larger purpose
As the speaker grew, they questioned whether their goals and actions were aligned with their values and a desire for social change. This led them to take on public interest cases, engage in civic literacy, and join social movements. They recognized the importance of not only personal achievement but also making a positive impact on society. The speaker's journey involved periods of doubt, reflection, and reevaluation. They sought to find a balance between personal ambition and a broader sense of purpose.
Shifting focus towards societal impact
Over time, the speaker's focus shifted towards making a difference in society. Their understanding of success expanded beyond individual accomplishments to include the betterment of the country and the world. They developed a desire to challenge social norms, fight for justice, and bring about positive change. While ego and ambition may play a role, the speaker's drive comes from a genuine desire to leave a lasting impact.
Recognizing the Importance of Full Play Advocacy
During the early days of IFF, I began to realize that while the judicial system is crucial for advancing fundamental rights, technology requires a different approach. This is where the concept of full play advocacy comes in. Full play advocacy refers to the comprehensive and dynamic engagement with various stakeholders, beyond the traditional legal avenues, to promote and protect fundamental rights in the digital age. It involves working closely with civil society, engaging policymakers, collaborating with technologists, and mobilizing public support. By embracing full play advocacy, organizations like IFF can effectively advocate for digital rights in a rapidly evolving technological landscape.
Building a Comprehensive Approach
Full play advocacy encompasses a range of activities that go beyond the traditional confines of the judicial system. It involves engaging with different stakeholders, such as civil society organizations, policymakers, technologists, and the general public, to address the complex challenges posed by technology and its impact on fundamental rights. This approach allows for a more holistic and comprehensive understanding of the issues at hand, and enables organizations like IFF to work towards meaningful change through collaborative and coordinated efforts. By adopting a full play advocacy approach, organizations can build a comprehensive strategy that leverages multiple avenues to achieve their goals.
Promoting Collaboration and Engagement
Full play advocacy emphasizes the importance of collaboration and engagement with various stakeholders in the pursuit of digital rights. It recognizes that change cannot be achieved through legal means alone, and that diverse perspectives and expertise are needed to effectively address the challenges posed by technology. By actively involving civil society organizations, policymakers, technologists, and the public, organizations like IFF can create a more inclusive and impactful movement for digital rights. Through full play advocacy, organizations can facilitate dialogue, raise awareness, mobilize support, and drive change in the digital landscape.
The Importance of Citizen Movements in Achieving Goals
The podcast episode highlights the importance of citizen movements in achieving goals related to digital rights and constitutional values. The speaker emphasizes that while constitutional cases play a role, they are not sufficient on their own. Movements, transparency, media advocacy, and engagement with pop culture are also crucial. The episode mentions examples like joint letters, filing RTS (Right to Information Act) requests, media advocacy around celebrities, and engaging a larger number of people. Building representative power and involving citizens in the organization's work are seen as essential for legitimacy and achieving change.
The Challenges and Rewards of Managing and Motivating an Organization
The podcast episode discusses the challenges of managing and motivating an organization, particularly in the non-profit sector. The speaker acknowledges the difficulties of attracting and retaining talent, especially in an environment where resources are limited and salaries are low. The episode highlights the passion and motivation of the organization's staff members, their belief in the mission, and the need for more support from donors. The speaker also reflects on their role as a manager and mentor, the emotional investment in the work, and the challenges of organizational growth. The episode ends with a call for the expansion of the digital rights ecosystem with multiple organizations working on different thematic areas to drive positive change.
Importance of Constitutional Values
The guest discusses the significance of constitutional values and their role in protecting people from the state. They emphasize the need for a constitution that is more effective in safeguarding individual rights and preventing abuse of power.
Engaging with Art, Fiction, and Music
The guest shares their love for engaging with aesthetics, including art, fiction, and music. They find value in exploring different art forms and genres, as it allows them to think laterally and prompts deeper reflection. They recommend listening to Bill Evans, reading books like 'Doppelganger' by Neelima Dalmia Adhar, and exploring the works of Indian marathi director Chaitanya Tamhane. They also mention the TV show 'The Good Fight' as a thought-provoking legal drama.
19.
Reflections on Disagreeing Respectfully and Pursuing a Non-Conventional Career Path
5min
How does technology affect our rights? Do we need protection from the state and Big Tech? Apar Gupta joins Amit Varma in episode 353 of The Seen and the Unseen to discuss his battle for digital rights in India. (FOR FULL LINKED SHOW NOTES, GO TO SEENUNSEEN.IN.) Also check out 1. Apar Gupta on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, IFF and YouTube. 2. Internet Freedom Foundation. (Donate to it!) 3. Apar Gupta's application to the Ashoka Fellowship (effectively a mini-autobiography). 4. IFF Wrapped, Unwrapped -- 2022 year-end event. 5. The Fine Line of Free Speech in India -- Apar Gupta. 6. When lawyers speak, they argue -- Apar Gupta. 7. I Don't Know -- Apar Gupta. 8. The archives of India Law and Technology Blog. 9. Aakar Patel Is Full of Hope — Episode 270 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Aakar Patel). 10. The Life and Times of Teesta Setalvad — Episode 302 of The Seen and the Unseen. 11. Amartya Ghosh on Spotify. 12. Neighbours Envy, Owners Pride -- Onida commercial. 13. Mungerilal Ke Haseen Sapne. 14. Permanent Record -- Edward Snowden. 15. Nehru's India -- Taylor Sherman. 16. The Life and Times of Vir Sanghvi — Episode 236 of The Seen and the Unseen. 17. India’s Problem is Poverty, Not Inequality — Amit Varma. 18. The Shallows -- Nicholas Carr. 19. The Incredible Curiosities of Mukulika Banerjee — Episode 276 of The Seen and the Unseen. 20. Why India Votes— Mukulika Banerjee. 21. Vlogbrothers, Tom Scott and Hardcore History. 22. The Techno-Optimist Manifesto -- Marc Andreeson. 23. Zero to One -- Peter Thiel. 24. Narendra Modi interviewed by Rajeev Shukla. 25. Sacred Games. 26. The Road Ahead -- Bill Gates. 27. The Prem Panicker Files — Episode 217 of The Seen and the Unseen. 28. Vladimir Nabokov on Wikipedia and Amazon. 29. The Great Gatsby -- F. Scott Fitzgerald. 30. Ruth Bader Ginsberg on Wikipedia and Amazon, 31. The Notebook Trilogy — Agota Kristof. 32. Episodes of The Seen and the Unseen with Ramachandra Guha: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 33. Jinnah -- Jaswant Singh. 34. Gujarat High Court lifts ban on Jaswant's book on Jinnah -- Saeed Khan. 35. Shreya Singhal v. Union of India. 36. Charges dropped against girls held for Facebook post -- PTI. 37. Nikhil Pahwa on Twitter, LinkedIn, MediaNama and his own site. 38. Episodes of The Seen and the Unseen with Nikhil Pahwa: 1, 2, 3. 39. Chandrahas Choudhury on Instagram, Amazon and The Middle Stage. 40. Chandrahas Choudhury’s Country of Literature -- Episode 288 of The Seen and the Unseen. 41. Kiran Jonnalagadda on Twitter and Hasgeek. 42. Sedition charges dropped against Aseem Trivedi -- PTI. 43. Justice K.S.Puttaswamy(Retd) vs Union Of India. 44. Hello world - and happy Independence Day! (2016) -- Apar Gupta. 45. IFF on Reddit. 46. Twitter and Tear Gas — Zeynep Tufekci. 47. Radically Networked Societies — Episode 158 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Pranay Kotasthane). 48. Anushka Jain's thread on SRK and digital rights. 49. IFF's Aarogya Setu Infographic. 50. The AgriStack: A Primer -- Rohin Garg. 51. Naushad Forbes Wants to Fix India — Episode 282 of The Seen and the Unseen. 52. The Struggle And The Promise -- Naushad Forbes. 53. Shruti Rajagopalan on our constitutional amendments. 54. The Right to Property — Episode 26 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Shruti Rajagopalan). 55. The Ideas of Our Constitution — Episode 164 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Madhav Khosla). 56. Emergency Chronicles — Gyan Prakash. 57. Gyan Prakash on the Emergency — Episode 103 of The Seen and the Unseen. 58. The Importance of the 1991 Reforms — Episode 237 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Shruti Rajagopalan and Ajay Shah). 59. India’s Lost Decade — Episode 116 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Puja Mehra). 60. The Life and Times of Montek Singh Ahluwalia — Episode 285 of The Seen and the Unseen. 61. The Forgotten Greatness of PV Narasimha Rao — Episode 283 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Vinay Sitapati). 62. Why Freedom Matters — Episode 10 of Everything is Everything, hosted by Amit Varma and Ajay Shah. 63. India’s Far From Free Markets (2005) — Amit Varma in the Wall Street Journal. 64. Don’t Insult Pasta (2007) — Amit Varma. 65. The Matunga Racket (2007) — Amit Varma. 66. One Bad Law Goes, but Women Remain Second-Class Citizens (2018) -- Amit Varma. 67. The Colonial Constitution -- Arghya Sengupta. 68. The First Assault on Our Constitution — Episode 194 of The Seen and the Unseen (w Tripurdaman Singh). 69. Sixteen Stormy Days — Tripurdaman Singh. 70. A People's Constitution -- Rohit De. 71. Subhashish Bhadra on Our Dysfunctional State — Episode 333 of The Seen and the Unseen. 72. Caged Tiger: How Too Much Government Is Holding Indians Back — Subhashish Bhadra. 73. Roland Barthes and John Berger on Amazon. 74. Bombay Progressive Artists' Group and Gond art. 75. Bill Evans on Spotify and YouTube. 76. Night Song and Mustt Mustt -- Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan with Michael Brook. 77. Doppelganger -- Naomi Klein. 78. Automating Inequality -- Virginia Eubanks. 79. The Speaking Constitution -- KG Kannabiran. 80. The Wages of Impunity -- KG Kannabiran. 81. The Good Fight. 82. Court and The Disciple -- Chaitanya Tamhane. Amit Varma and Ajay Shah have launched a new video podcast. Check out Everything is Everything on YouTube. Check out Amit’s online course, The Art of Clear Writing. And subscribe to The India Uncut Newsletter. It’s free! Episode art: ‘Carrying a Torch’ by Simahina.
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Discover
highlights
Listen to the best highlights from the podcasts you love and dive into the full episode