Psychedelic Medicine Podcast with Dr. Lynn Marie Morski Integrating Challenging Psychedelic Experiences with Keith Kurlander, MA, LPC
In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Keith Kurlander, MA, LPC, joins to discuss the important topic of integration practices for challenging psychedelic experiences. Keith is the Co-Founder of the Integrative Psychiatry Institute, the largest professional education company specializing in integrative mental health and psychedelic therapy.
In this conversation, Keith begins by exploring the different types of challenging psychedelic experiences and various lingering effects one may experience following a difficult psychedelic journey. He discusses these from a trauma-informed perspective, explaining how a traumatized nervous system can lead to dissociation on the other side of an intense ego-disrupting experience. Keith also shares practices and insights from internal family systems (IFS) for integrating challenging psychedelic experiences. In closing, he emphasizes that psychedelics are not lazer-targeted therapies, so they do carry inherent risks, but through effective integration practices, patients can make healthy meaning out of even negative experiences.
In this episode you'll hear:
- Lingering issues with ego fragmentation and connections to the dissociative disorder spectrum
- Persisting psychotic disorders following psychedelic experiences
- The difference between CPTSD and PTSD
- Uncovering repressed traumatic memories during psychedelic journeys
- Trauma stemming from difficult psychedelic experiences
- Challenging spiritual experiences
Quotes:
“The concept of pendulation [is] that we can be more flexible to ease our way into these overwhelming states. So once we are totally overwhelmed, we have to work our way back out gracefully, but as we are doing that, you get a gem as you are coming back… you learn something as you are coming out of that state.” [18:02]
“If people have a psychotic disorder that emerged after their psychedelic use, you need a psychiatrist at that point… If it’s really a psychotic emergence, whether a previous psychotic disorder got triggered or whatever, you need a psychiatrist to work with you on that.” [20:07]
“I believe all these mental health conditions have a trauma process underneath them. I don’t know how you isolate a trauma process from a mental health condition” [25:30]
“It’s about working with a person’s meaning-making structure: is the meaning they’re making creating more psychological flexibility or less psychological flexibility? That’s a really important question to hold as a therapist because people will make all kinds of meaning up from these experiences but if they’re creating meaning that’s creating more rigid structures of how they see the world, then they get disappointed more often.” [34:21]
Links:
Previous episode: The Challenging Psychedelic Experiences Project with Jules Evans
Psychedelic Medicine Association