Lawrence Krauss interviews Robert Sapolsky, a creative force with wide-ranging knowledge from primatology to neuroscience. They discuss the illusion of free will, the neurobiology behind it, the influence of culture on behavior, and the evolutionary origins of human monogamy. They also explore topics such as neuroplasticity, the impact of privilege and upbringing, and the importance of open minds and learning. Sapolsky effectively dismantles claims of uncaused behavior and emphasizes the societal implications of understanding the illusion of free will.
Free will is an illusion as all actions and decisions can be traced back to deterministic factors.
The reliability of intent and agency as indicators of free will is challenged by experiments and manipulation.
Consciousness and the sense of self are emergent properties of the brain, debunking the notion of free will.
Determinism underlies all aspects of behavior, and attempts to reconcile it with free will are flawed.
Unpredictability in chaotic systems does not imply the existence of free will.
Society can prioritize effective learning and positive change instead of retribution, even without free will.
Deep dives
Determinism and the Illusion of Free Will
Determinism is the belief that every event and behavior is caused by preceding factors, leading to a chain of causality. The idea of free will is the belief that individuals have the ability to act and make choices independent of predetermined causes. However, this concept is illusory, as our actions and decisions can always be traced back to deterministic factors. Whether it's biology, genetics, or evolutionary forces, determinism underlies all aspects of our behavior. The attempt to reconcile determinism with the notion of free will, known as compatibilism, is flawed as it fails to recognize the interconnectedness of all scientific disciplines. By exploring the biology, neuroscience, and evolutionary foundations of behavior, it becomes clear that free will is an illusion.
The Fallacy of Intent and Agency
The notion of intent and agency is often used as evidence of free will. Intent refers to the conscious desire to perform a specific action, while agency refers to the sense of being in control of our actions. However, experiments and studies have shown that these experiences can be manipulated and influenced. For example, through transcranial magnetic stimulation, researchers can stimulate specific parts of the brain to make individuals perform certain actions without their conscious awareness. This challenges the idea that intent and agency are reliable indicators of free will, as they can be artificially induced.
The Illusion of Consciousness and Self
Consciousness is often seen as a mysterious and separate entity that gives rise to our sense of self and our experiences. However, it is increasingly recognized that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain, a product of neural processes. This means that our subjective experiences and sense of self are not independent entities but rather byproducts of complex neurological activity. The idea of self or a unified "I" is an illusion created by our brains to construct a cohesive narrative of our experiences. Thus, the illusion of consciousness and self further challenges the notion of free will.
Determinism and the Irrelevance of Free Will
In summary, the podcast episode discusses the fallacy of free will and the illusory nature of our sense of agency and control. The concept of determinism, which suggests that all events and behaviors are caused by preceding factors, underlies all aspects of our behavior. Attempts to reconcile determinism with free will, such as compatibilism, are ultimately flawed and fail to address the interconnectedness of various scientific disciplines. The episode also highlights how experiments and research demonstrate the manipulation of intent and agency, revealing their unreliable nature as indicators of free will. Furthermore, consciousness is viewed as an emergent property of the brain, challenging the traditional notion of a separate and independent self. Ultimately, the podcast concludes that free will is an illusion and that determinism fundamentally shapes our behaviors and choices.
Determinism and Chaos: Unpredictability does not imply Free Will
Unpredictability in chaotic systems does not indicate the presence of free will. While chaotic systems are deterministic, their outcomes can be highly unpredictable due to the complexity of their interactions. It is crucial to understand that unpredictability is not equivalent to indeterminacy. Chaos does not provide an escape from determinism, as the fundamental laws governing these systems remain deterministic. Unpredictability does not support the existence of free will; it simply implies that the outcomes are not easily predictable based on initial conditions.
Social and Environmental Factors Shape Brain Development
The dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC) and ventromedial prefrontal cortex (VM PFC) play crucial roles in decision-making and emotional responses. These regions receive and process information from the emotional limbic system, providing a basis for decision-making. Research has shown that socio-economic status can influence the development and function of these brain regions in children. Lower socio-economic status has been associated with worse DLPFC development. However, it is essential to note that changes in brain development are not irreversible. Neuroplasticity allows for significant changes, and understanding the mechanisms behind these changes can facilitate positive transformations.
Challenging the Idea of Free Will in the Face of Determinism
The argument against free will often encounters the idea of chaos and unpredictability in the world. However, chaotic systems being unpredictable does not provide a basis for free will. Chaos is not synonymous with indeterminacy. Unpredictability in chaos arises due to the complexity of interactions within deterministic systems. It is crucial to recognize that the unpredictability of outcomes does not provide an opportunity for free will to exist. Understanding chaos and determinism helps debunk the notion of free will.
Emergent Complexity: From Chaos to Structure
Emergent complexity refers to the phenomenon where complex structures and behaviors arise from the interactions of simpler components. This concept is often used to argue against determinism. However, emergent complexity does not invalidate determinism, as it merely demonstrates the fascinating structures that can emerge from fundamental constituents. The inability to trace a complex outcome back to its constituents does not imply the presence of free will. Emergent complexity is a result of the underlying deterministic processes at work.
Understanding Emergent Complexity and Evolution
Emergent complexity is the remarkable phenomenon in which individual constituents, such as genetic mutations and reproduction, work together to create complex systems in biology. This concept is similar to the idea of evolution, where organisms adapt and develop structured existences without a predetermined goal. Despite the astonishing nature of emergent complexity, it does not imply the presence of free will. The simple building blocks remain unchanged, and the system operates based on predictability and determinism.
The Irrelevance of Quantum Mechanics
Quantum mechanics is often argued to provide an indeterminate nature that could allow for free will. However, this perspective overlooks the fact that quantum mechanics is fundamentally deterministic and predictable, despite the probabilistic nature of observations. The scale at which quantum mechanical effects might occur in the brain is vastly different from the scale at which important neuronal processes and decision-making take place. Furthermore, the functioning of the brain in a moist and noisy environment undermines the possibility of quantum coherence significantly influencing macro events.
Harnessing Change and Embracing Ethics
Accepting the absence of free will does not lead to moral apathy or a disregard for ethical behavior. On the contrary, understanding the deterministic nature of our actions provides an opportunity to examine the antecedents that cause us to behave in certain ways. Instead of punishment, which is often driven by a desire for retribution, society can focus on quarantine-like consequences, where the aim is to prevent harm and promote positive change. By recognizing neurobiological influences on behavior and promoting effective learning, we can create a world that prioritizes the well-being and needs of all individuals.
I have been a fan of Robert Sapolsky’s for a long time. He is a creative force, with wide ranging knowledge, from primatology to neuroscience, and he is also a wonderful expositor of science. His previous book, Behave, was a wide ranging exploration of human behavior, at its best and worst. I have been wanting to do a podcast with him for some time, and the launch of his new book, Determined, gave us the opportunity. I got an advanced copy and we recorded this a few weeks ago, so that this podcast could post on the book’s publication date.
Had it been anyone else, I admit I wouldn’t have bothered to go through the book. I have long felt the issue of free will is overplayed. The laws of physics are deterministic, and since biology and chemistry are based on physics, I have never doubted that free will is an illusion, but have also felt that for all intents and purposes the world we live in is indistinguishable from a world with free will, so we should take responsibility for our actions.
As is often the case when reading Robert’s works, my view has now become more nuanced. His book masterfully discusses the neurobiology behind the illusion of free will, what actually interests me the most, and he effectively demolished claims of numerous philosophers, including Dan Dennett and others, that some magic occurs between the level of neurons and the level of the full brain that allows for some uncaused behavior.
Along the way, we are taken on a masterful and fun ride through modern neurobiology. And at the end, Sapolsky confronts the more serious question of crime and punishment in a world where free will is an illusion, and convincingly argues that in a world where bad luck early on gets multiplied throughout ones life, society can far more effectively and honestly deal with crime by abolishing the notion of punishment, replacing it with behaviorally more effective methods.
In our podcast, as we always do, we discussed Sapolsky’s origins. What got him interested in science. How did his 30 years working with primates impact on his view of humans, and more. I found it a fascinating discussion, and I hope you will too.
As always, an ad-free video version of this podcast is also available to paid Critical Mass subscribers. Your subscriptions support the non-profit Origins Project Foundation, which produces the podcast. The audio version is available free on the Critical Mass site and on all podcast sites, and the video version will also be available on the Origins Project Youtube channel as well.
