Open Book with Anthony Scaramucci James Holland is Back: The Forgotten Campaign That Shaped the World We Live In
Sep 25, 2025
James Holland, an award-winning historian specializing in World War II, shares his insights on the often-overlooked Italian campaign. He discusses his connection to Marzabotto and the human tragedy of civilian suffering. Holland compares the brutality of Italy's battles to Normandy and highlights the strategic dilemmas faced by leaders like Churchill and Roosevelt. He also touches on the significance of his book, Cassino '44, revealing its lessons on leadership and the moral complexities of war, drawing parallels to contemporary political dynamics.
AI Snips
Chapters
Books
Transcript
Episode notes
Marzabotto Awakening
- James Holland recounts discovering the Marzabotto massacre story and interviewing survivors, which ignited his obsession with Italy's wartime experience.
- He describes visiting cemeteries with bullet-marked crosses and hearing survivors' harrowing memories that stayed with him.
Fascism's Limited Reach In Rural Italy
- Holland argues fascism operated mainly at elite and urban levels, leaving many rural Italians disconnected from Mussolini's politics.
- He emphasizes how the campaign's fighting shattered village life and left haunting, empty homes.
Scaramucci's Family Link To Italy
- Anthony Scaramucci shares family ties to a rural Italian village and visiting relatives who remembered wartime hardship.
- He connects personal family memory to Holland's portrayal of rural Italian confusion during the war.
