Can We Fix AI Before It’s Too Late? | Dr. Rumman Chowdhury (Ep. 9)

Feb 11, 2025

01:20:08

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In this Life with Machines episode, Baratunde Thurston talks with Dr. Rumman Chowdhury, a leading voice in AI ethics and accountability. As the former Director of Machine Learning Ethics, Transparency, and Accountability at Twitter—before the Elon Musk era—she’s seen firsthand how power, politics, and algorithms collide. She and Baratunde discuss moral outsourcing (why we blame AI instead of its creators), the failure of responsible AI, and the challenge of holding tech accountable when it’s designed to evade scrutiny. Rumman also breaks down her work as CEO of Humane Intelligence, where she’s building tools to expose bias and keep AI systems in check. Plus, BLAIR—the show’s AI co-producer—joins the discussion, proving that auditing AI is anything but simple.

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CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and Early Tech Memories

02:05 Formative Years and High School Experience

04:55 Career Beginnings and Responsible AI

06:55 Challenges and Innovations in AI

15:27 Moral Outsourcing and AI Ethics

26:15 Right to Repair and Ownership of Technology

36:23 Exploring Worst-Case Scenarios in AI

36:37 Addressing Bias in Image Cropping Algorithms

37:21 Generative AI for Everyone

37:44 National AI Testing Standards

38:14 The ARIA Program and Public Involvement

38:49 Balancing Rights and Responsibilities in AI

41:21 The Importance of Discernment in AI

43:07 The Role of Humane Intelligence

51:40 Red Teaming Explained

54:51 Challenges and Future of Red Teaming

56:50 Engaging with AI Ethically

01:07:05 Final Reflections and Future Vision

01:08:23 Blair: The AI Assistant Producer

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Created and Executive Produced by: Elizabeth Stewart and Baratunde Thurston

Executive Producer and Showrunner: Misha Euceph

Editor: Alie Kilts

Senior Producer and Writer: Alex Stone

Associate Producer: Layne Deyling Cherland

Video Editor: Erik Shute

Videography and Audio Engineering from the team at Voicing Change Media

Theme Music: Andy Clausen

Special Envoy to the Machines: Peter Loforte

Life with Machines is a Voicing Change Media production