Hearts of Oak Podcast Dan Wootton - Media, Musk and the Future of Freedom in the UK
Dan Wootton - Media, Musk and the Future of Freedom in the UK
In this compelling episode, we dive into the UK media's evolving landscape with a prominent journalist who has transitioned from the glitz of showbiz to the gravity of political commentary. The conversation begins with an exploration of the guest's career shift, sparked by the divisive Brexit vote, which highlighted the mainstream media's reluctance to embrace democratic outcomes, pushing our guest towards independent platforms.
We discuss the inception of GB News, intended as a conservative counterbalance in a left-leaning media environment, and the challenges that ensued, including the guest's personal battle against media constraints, particularly after hosting a controversial figure. This leads into a broader discussion on cancel culture, where our guest recounts facing repercussions for promoting free speech, drawing attention to the media's uneven handling of controversial discussions.
The episode also covers a recent petition in the UK, gaining nearly two million signatures rapidly, as a testament to public unrest with the current government and establishment. This is portrayed as not just a call for electoral change but a deeper demand for systemic reform.
The conversation touches on Elon Musk's influence on social media freedom, suggesting a hopeful shift towards more open discourse. Finally, we explore the rise of populist movements across continents, advocating for a grassroots approach to political change in the UK, challenging the traditional political duopoly.
This episode is a clarion call for listeners to engage with their political environment, emphasizing the transformative potential of independent media in an era where free expression is under threat. The discussion underscores the importance of diverse voices in media, highlighting how one journalist's journey reflects broader societal shifts towards seeking truth and accountability in governance.
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Hearts of Oak:
[0:24] And hello, Hearts of Oak. Thank you so much for joining us once again. And I'm delighted to have someone who our UK viewers will know very well. Maybe the war room posse may not know as well, but you will over the next 45 minutes. And that is Dan Wooden. Dan, thanks very much for your time today.
Dan Wootton:
[0:39] So good to be here, Peter.
Hearts of Oak:
[0:40] Great to have you and obviously people can follow you at dan wooden is your handle on x on twitter and your outspoken show airs every weekday monday to friday 5 p.m uk time which is noon for you guys on the east coast or for those earlier risers want to watch it maybe in your first hour and work on pacific standard time it's 9 a.m so catch dan monday to friday on that and Now, Dan, there is a lot to discuss about, but I'd love to maybe just start on your background. Your background was kind of in media, but showbiz. It's quite a movement from showbiz, which probably a lot of us now would think is not that important, to now you discussing real issues that affect real people. Tell us about that move from the showbiz background in media all the way now to current affairs.
Dan Wootton:
[1:39] Yeah, well, it's interesting, actually, because in the UK newspaper scene, there is this weird transition, actually, where people go from being in tabloids, writing about the entertainment industry, and editing this column called the Bizarre Column at the Sun to then moving into news. Piers Morgan is the most famous example of that. So I guess in some ways that wasn't unusual, but I think for me, it was about why it happened and when it happened. And it happened between 2016 and 2019, when I could see the entire British establishment.
Dan Wootton:
[2:21] And the mainstream media, which remember I was a part of trying to overturn the Brexit referendum. So I was associate editor at The Sun and The Sun had campaigned very hard for Brexit.
Dan Wootton:
[2:34] And it was over that period that I got my first news show on talk radio, which is now Talk. And over that time, I really did become, I guess you could say, radicalized because I was so horrified and mortified to see the entire mechanism of state work with the media to try and overturn the biggest democratic vote in British history,
Dan Wootton:
[3:09] which was the vote to leave the European Union. And then just to give you the very potted history of course we finally get to the point where we're out in january 2020 i decide i'm going all in on this and i take over the drive time show on talk radio in the uk uh from amin holmes so i was on air every afternoon monday to thursday 4 p.m to 7pm UK time and I started the show in February 2020 and we all know what then happened within days so uh by that point I was just utterly furious over the whole course of um.
Dan Wootton:
[3:55] Covid and that scandal and sham and that then led me to leaving the mainstream media i guess to to join gb news which i thought was going to be a true alternative.
Hearts of Oak:
[4:08] Right that is a whole other story and you ended up again with with emin homes there um but i mean you studied what was it uh politics and media so that was an interest anyway it wasn't doing a an arty course at uni but you kind of were focused on that i came from yeah you did it in new zealand do you see do you see yourself because i sometimes think we have too many u.s guests on i thought oh dan great uk was kind of a bit kiwi as well
Dan Wootton:
[4:35] But how.
Hearts of Oak:
[4:36] Do you how do you see your identity in terms of
Dan Wootton:
[4:38] That it's really interesting actually because lots of people who are by the way always on the left and always everything that they claim that we are so i get lots of people on the left saying to me go back home to new zealand stop talking about british issues what what what do you think you know you new zealander well i actually get pretty offended by that i'm not gonna lie because i'm a british citizen but i'm a dual citizen because you're allowed to be that for americans that's obviously quite a weird thing isn't it because you have to have citizenship of one country but as a new zealander i am absolutely able to be a british citizen but i've been a british citizen since birth, because my father was born on a British Army base in Malta.
Dan Wootton:
[5:28] My grandfather fought in World War II. In fact, three of my four grandparents fought in World War II for the Allied forces. And my mom was actually born in Essex, and they were part of this wave of emigration to New Zealand. It was described as the 10-pound Poms, people who were leaving sort of war-torn Britain, the life of rationing to go and set up a new home in New Zealand. But as a result, I had so many British influences growing up, as you can imagine. I ate the Sunday roast and we had our Yorkshire puddings and I watched Coronation Street every night. So it was always my goal to move to the UK.
Dan Wootton:
[6:15] Professionally and personally, I guess, I always had such an affinity with this place. And I moved here when I was 21 years old. I'm 41.
Dan Wootton:
[6:25] Two now just past 40 yeah that's so disturbing you get to a point where you actually don't know i don't know if i'm 41 or 42 i think i'm 42 and and i've spent my whole adult life here i've chosen to live here but in saying that i have a huge affinity to new zealand i love it but again i find it so fascinating that if you're on the left that's absolutely accepted you know that your heritage can absolutely be part of your identity, but you are accepted in this new place. Whereas with me, it's like, go back to New Zealand.
Dan Wootton:
[7:01] But no, I view myself as a British New Zealander. That's a very long answer to your question.
Hearts of Oak:
[7:05] You're half and half exactly in terms of time-wise. So from here on in, it's more Brit than New Zealand time-wise. Tell GB News, you were there at the beginning, weren't you? You were one of the first hires. What was that period like because a lot of excitement on gb news it's builders kind of the fox for the uk i guess you could look at it that way um something fresh and exciting to push back on the the legacy media and that's very much to the left and how did that all come about and you've been on gb news right at the beginning yeah
Dan Wootton:
[7:41] I was so excited i was the first presenter to be named andrew neil who was the very short-serving chairman had been announced, and then I was the first announcement. So I was all in on this right from the start. I knew that the UK needed a media revolution, and I thought GB News was the vehicle for that to happen. And I actually hosted the first regular show on the station as well, which turned out to be a complete disaster because people who had followed GB News yeah there were loads of technical issues and the channel wasn't really ready to air but while lots of other people moved on i so believed in the mission because it's very odd for american audiences to even wrap their head around this but we had no sort of conservative television whatsoever. Uh, or even by the way, uh, TV news that you could describe as being from the center or the center, right. Everything was liberal. Everything was from the left. And actually a lot of it was from the hard left. Actually the guardian parts of the BBC channel four news, woke eye TV, sly news, as I call it. So.
Dan Wootton:
[9:00] I was really a believer, a passionate believer, in the need for there to be a broadcast revolution in the UK. I thought the vehicle was going to be GB News. The unfortunate thing is, again, this is so odd for Americans to even wrap their head around, but we have a government censor. Officially, they're called Ofcom. I call them the Ofcomunists. To begin with, they left GB News alone, really, because we were viewed as a bit of a joke. But what we did was build up an incredibly loyal audience. And all of a sudden, certainly my show, Nigel Farage's show, a couple of other on the channel were number one.
Dan Wootton:
[9:39] We were beating the BBC. We were beating Sly News and the ratings. We were doing huge numbers on YouTube. And at that point, there became a mission to silence us, to shut us down. And it's very sad because I say us, I say we, you know, it was like a little family for me and then in ludicrous circumstances i was cancelled because lawrence fox uh who's the former actor turned politician has he been on with you peter yes.
Hearts of Oak:
[10:13] We had him on a couple of weeks ago so
Dan Wootton:
[10:15] Yes so you guys know lawrence and yes look he's a firebrand he's an absolute firebrand but He came on the show, he was very, very angry about the fact that a woman called Ava Santina, who... There's an awful, hard left, hypocritical woman who is a regular on the Piers Morgan show, Piers Morgan Uncensored from the left, that she had been so dismissive about the need for there to be a minister for men because male suicide in the UK is just out of control. It's one of those national scandals that the MSM just doesn't want to talk about because it doesn't fit their narrative at all, does it? Who gives a damn about white working class men? White working class men in Britain actually are underrepresented in virtually all statistics. So Lawrence was very furious about this, said in quite a tirade during my show that he didn't want to shag this woman. And all of a sudden, you would have thought that I had just gone out on the street and shot an elderly woman. I mean, I was enemy number one. I hadn't even made the comment, but I didn't apologize for it. That seemed to be what my crime was.
Dan Wootton:
[11:34] And all hell ensued. And actually, GB News unfortunately gave in to the mob. They gave in to the left-wing mob. They gave in to the off communists. This was ridiculous, Peter. I mean, my show was after nine o'clock at night. So in the UK, there's this thing called the watershed, where basically if you air on TV after nine o'clock, you can do whatever you want. There are honestly, on Channel 4, they have, well, they have people that they would describe as trans women, but they have men with their penises out playing the piano. Naked on television. And that is considered completely acceptable. But Lawrence Fox saying he wouldn't want to shag a woman for political reasons. That was the line that had apparently been crossed. But unfortunately, what happened is GB News gave in to the mob. Their content has massively changed as a result. But for me, I just view it as.
Dan Wootton:
[12:37] This incredible sort of opportunity that I wasn't expecting because all of a sudden the US election has proven the MSM, something that I've known for a long time and in fairness have been arguing for years and years and years, just switch it off, turn it off. The MSM is finished. But I mean, the MSM has never been more finished. It's over. It's dead. And here in the UK, we're probably usually about five years behind America. I don't know if you agree, Peter, when it comes to sort of trends, media trends, political trends. And the great thing is I'm now at the start here of what is a true independent media revolution. I'm not the only one. There are other people who are doing it brilliantly, but I'm very excited to be a part of it because what it means is I'm not censored. I don't have the off communists able to take me off air. Or there's this ridiculous thing that america got rid of in the 80s which is sort of like a concept of equal time you know if you have someone on saying uh you know a man is a man and a woman is a woman you have to drag on some absolutely hysterical human being from the far left who tells you that you're wrong so everything becomes a sort of confected performative debate just to please the government censors and i don't have to do that on outspoken at all yeah.
Hearts of Oak:
[14:02] I agree and and i i saw you i think lauren i don't think lawrence actually knows what the watershed is but that's a whole other
Dan Wootton:
[14:09] Thing look at it oh he doesn't oh he doesn't but but.
Hearts of Oak:
[14:12] You seem to be um the wrong
Dan Wootton:
[14:14] Party in that because.
Hearts of Oak:
[14:15] Lawrence had said something and he said look if i've said something then i should be punished and then calvin got sucked into it just simply for backing you yeah father calvin robinson
Dan Wootton:
[14:23] Who's not a regular part of my show outspoken to be honest though this was the direction of travel and that's why i think this is actually a brilliant opportunity for all of us.
Dan Wootton:
[14:37] I was very inspired by, over that period, the people in America who had gone through something very similar, I guess. So Megyn Kelly, who was a regular on my show, she came on every week and we became friends over that period of time. She could not have been more supportive. I mean, number one, she quit GB News overnight. She was gone. She had actually been sitting watching the whole Lawrence Fox incident because she was my next guest on that show. And she just couldn't believe it. She just could not believe that this would become a national story and that we would lose our careers from it. So she quit overnight. But not only that, she provided me a huge amount of inspiration in terms of how she came out of her situation with NBC. All of the confidence issues that you go through is anyone going to want to watch me does anyone care should i just retire and just go away gracefully she really got me through all of that so i've based a lot of my show on what she did in america actually with hers but there were other people who were incredibly supportive as well uh like dan bongino and dave rubin have obviously both been a big part of the rumble revolution.
Dan Wootton:
[16:02] And so it was a really difficult time because, look, let's just be frank about it, I had not intended to leave GB News when I did.
Dan Wootton:
[16:15] However, I absolutely could see the direction of travel. And there's just a complete revolution going on. You don't want to hear from someone who you think could be having their strings pulled. And unfortunately, you know, I've, the thing is I know about the mainstream media, Peter, because I've worked in the mainstream media and the whole reason I've been cancelled from the mainstream media is because I wasn't prepared to
Dan Wootton:
[16:40] play by the rules and I wasn't prepared to do whatever my billionaire boss has told me to do. But trust me, there are limitations if you're part of the mainstream media there are things that you know you just can't talk about because rupert murdoch doesn't want you to or one of the billionaire owners of gb news doesn't want you to and for example um.
Dan Wootton:
[17:06] There are some shocking stories in the UK at the moment that I have covered massively on my show since we launched in July. So we launched on July 5th, the day after the UK election. And obviously this has turned out to be a seismic election because the UK's effectively been taken over by socialists, which I knew was going to happen. And I always knew that this was going to be a really shocking turn to the hard left and free speech and a whole load of civil rights were going to be under threat in the UK. I'd been talking about it on GB News for four years beforehand. So to be able to come back the day after the election was incredible.
Dan Wootton:
[17:47] But I'm talking about lots of issues that GB News simply ignores now. They have banned their presenters, for example, from talking about the cover-up in regards to the Southport Massacre or the truth about Keir Starmer's family, which he's kept hidden from the public. So there's a whole load of issues now where I'm like, oh my goodness, there's no way I could be on GB News being told not to talk about this. No way. Or being forced to describe patriots as far right thugs or pretend that you can't even utter the words Tommy Robinson or Katie Hopkins. So I got out at the right time. And I think the bigger point is now, and you can see this from the US, trust an individual because an individual is far less likely to have been corrupted than a media organization.
Hearts of Oak:
[18:45] 100 i want to pick on one or two of those topics that you dropped in um but let me ask you last thing on on the media side because um you kind of came across as someone like calvin you could say things but you could say them in a way that you rile people with your words but not with how you put across lawrence and maybe even mark stein or or rougher and they will push more but you seem to have the gift that the calvin said to say it with a smile and this is less even more yeah totally
Dan Wootton:
[19:18] I mean and that's the thing i look it's ridiculous the way that father calvin and i were painted in the media i mean honestly it does our viewers know that the way that we were portrayed was completely ridiculous and actually even mark and and lawrence sure they might say it with a bit more force, but fundamentally, they have been proven to be right on so many issues, from grooming gangs to mass immigration to, everything connected to COVID and the vaccines. So, In some ways, I'm sad about the fact that it was all shut down at GB News, where we were there doing it as a little family. But probably it was inevitable.
Hearts of Oak:
[20:11] Yeah. Tell me, the two pressures are advertising and Ofcom, certainly in the legacy media. And you went up against Ofcom. And, of course, the advertisers would make decisions. I mean, does that mean in the UK you can't have a legacy media or mainstream media that actually tells the truth? Because there'll always be no pressure.
Dan Wootton:
[20:33] A hundred percent. A hundred percent. No, no, no. I mean, there's not even any question about this. You cannot tell the truth on the mainstream legacy media in the UK and you are censored. That is just a fact. Everything that happened with Mark Stein, myself, Lawrence Fox, Father Calvin proves that. But I can just say that from having worked in it. Now, yes, I pushed the boundaries more than virtually anyone. And I would do it with a smile, absolutely. And I'd always want to do it as respectfully and carefully as I could. But as I say, GB News, which is meant to be the Fox News of the UK, has not spoken at all about the cover-up connected to the Southport Massacre. That's all you need to know. That is all you need to know.
Hearts of Oak:
[21:27] Tell me, we've just had on some of the issues, you mentioned Southport, I'll touch on that. We've had a petition going around, which, as we record, I think is about 1.9 million.
Dan Wootton:
[21:41] By the time this is on, we're going to be well over 2 million.
Hearts of Oak:
[21:43] But that's in 24 hours. And I watched Jess Phillips, sadly, I know. Forgive me, but you have to watch it. I know. She was on LBC, and she was asked about, what do you think about this petition, having 1.5 million signatures? She goes, well, you'd have to ask those who signed it. that level of arrogance and just refusing
Dan Wootton:
[22:02] To understand totally dismissive.
Hearts of Oak:
[22:04] To tell us about this petition what that means because when i initially saw it i was like oh it's not going to do anything actually it is a vehicle for people to express their frustration
Dan Wootton:
[22:13] Yeah i i was the same as you to be honest so i was watching this initially and i thought oh another petition, why not but actually it's not going to make any difference however this is not a petition this is a people's revolt and they are very different things i mean when you're talking about getting two million signatures in less than three days in a country of 67 million people i mean this is phenomenal and the issue is is that we have a government that is effectively illegitimate because they lied about virtually every major policy issue, point blank lied.
Dan Wootton:
[22:59] And actually, they didn't just lie. They lied and then they spat in our faces with the glee in which they immediately instituted their lies,
Dan Wootton:
[23:11] treating us all as fools. And then the second thing is the UK has this, I now believe, ridiculous and antiquated electoral system first past the post, Which means a government that actually didn't get that many votes, was voted for by less than one in five of the population, can have such a massive majority in the House of Commons at Westminster that they are able to effectively tear the heart out of this country over the next five years. So this petition will clearly not lead to a general election. It's not about that. It's about saying, the British people, we have had enough. We are sick of this. We are sick of the Uniparty. We are sick of the establishment.
Dan Wootton:
[24:03] And we're turning to heroes, free speech heroes like Elon Musk, who is pointing things out going on in the UK in a way that unfortunately very few people are. And he predicted just a couple of days ago that the establishment parties in the uk so that's labor and the conservatives who let's be honest have had a stranglehold on power in the uk since before the world wars he predicted that they will be crushed at the next election now the westminster elite what they do is they laugh and they mock because that's what they do even when you're talking about the richest, most successful man in the world, right? They laugh and they mock. What does he know? What does he know about our electoral system? Our electoral system is designed to stop a revolution, is designed to stop a democratic process actually saying we've had enough of politicians who lie to us.
Dan Wootton:
[25:05] But I disagree with them. I predicted before the last election that Nigel Farage, the leader of Reform UK, will be prime minister in 2029. Now, Nigel was a colleague of mine at GB News. I would count him as a friend. I also would say I don't think Nigel is perfect. There's lots of issues that I disagree with him on. But the point is, he's the only politician in this country who is promising true reform, smashing up this absolute shower that we've had to put up with now for decades, where we're promised that immigration, for example, will come down to the tens or net immigration will come down to the tens of thousands a year. And it's a million. It's had a million.
Dan Wootton:
[25:56] And that's just the people we know about. There is an actual invasion of our southern border via the English Channel happening on a daily basis, and they will not even stop that. So I agree with Elon Musk on this. This petition is not going to lead to a general election, but what it is going to show to the world is that you cannot lie to us anymore. You cannot treat us as fools. And we are, as Donald Trump famously said,
Dan Wootton:
[26:30] going to fight, fight, fight. And if it's five years, we'll fight for five years. Now, for me, as you know, Peter, I believe that we need to find ways to fight within the system and do it in a way that isn't violent. But I have had people on my show from David Starkey to Father Calvin and many others, Douglas Murray, who predict civil war coming to the UK.
Hearts of Oak:
[27:01] I think that's where we're going and i think that the frustration people can sign a petition and they feel trapped because politically at the moment there is no solution we're stuck with this awful government and it's this weird position you mentioned elon musk where elon musk is actually the opposition to the government that's a strange position we'll be in and it's an exciting position where someone of that size and importance is focused on the dangers that we face in the uk can in terms of free speech.
Dan Wootton:
[27:32] Well, I just think, thank God Elon Musk bought X because that is what has shifted the Overton window. That's what allows us to feel a little bit more free. I don't know if you agree, Peter, but a little bit more free on some of the mainstream big tech platforms like YouTube, where I broadcast, for example, which was awful during COVID, booting people off willy-nilly for... Stating facts. I think Dan Bongino was booted off YouTube for revealing that masks were a complete sham. I mean, imagine that now. So I think Elon Musk has changed that, has changed that discussion, has hopefully shifted the Overton window. He is allowing us to present the truth about what's going on in the UK. And what he's doing is he is exposing the corrupt and crooked mainstream media. Now, this is something that I've been doing, obviously, within the UK for the last six years. But to have someone like Elon Musk doing it on his platform, it's just a game changer. It's just a complete game changer. So over the weekend, for example.
Dan Wootton:
[28:52] Elon Musk asked, why has Tommy Robinson been jailed for 18 months? Why? Now, that is a question that no one in the mainstream media in the UK has the balls to ask because Tommy Robinson is discussed and treated as if he's Hitler. But actually, even worse than Hitler, because Hitler, you're allowed to discuss. You're allowed to talk about his manifesto. With Tommy Robinson, you're not even allowed to discuss if you're part of the mainstream media he is non-personed and that's what has happened to katie hopkins that's what then happened to mark stein that happened to me that happened to honest fox that happened to father calvin you are thrust out of the mainstream media now in the past being thrust out of the mainstream media used to mean to an extent you were finished right, Katie is a force again, because who cares whether you're on the mainstream media? I'd never accept an invite from the mainstream media now. Absolutely not. What's the point? I don't need to go on the BBC to be berated for me to spread what I'm trying to say. And I think so much of that change is down to Elon and what he's done with the ex. No, I agree.
Hearts of Oak:
[30:07] And anywhere, and I've known Tommy for a decade and a half. I'm probably known Katie for a decade. But you go with him anywhere, and everyone wants a selfie. There's no anger. And we are given a narrative that these people are hated figures. You spend 10 minutes with them walking down any high street, and they're bombarded for pictures. And it points out that, actually, we are fed lies. We see the danger is that normies, or however we call it, some people, see the world through the prism of the mainstream media, and they're seeing things completely wrong. And I think your show, Outspoken, and many others, gives an opportunity to show, actually, this is the real side. This is what is really happening.
Dan Wootton:
[30:54] Yeah, and just include them as part of the conversation. I mean, to try and pretend that Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson do not have a role in the UK political ecosystem is lunacy. They do. And even if you disagree with them, you can't just wish them away anymore. And that's what used to happen. And I mean, the lawfare, for example, that Katie had to deal with, the complete, I mean, they de-personed her. it was more than just debanking.
Dan Wootton:
[31:30] Katie is very bold about the fact now that she owns nothing, so nothing can be taken away from her. And they tried that with me a lot over the past year as well. They've tried it with Lawrence, but the differences, and this is the change now, it doesn't matter because who cares anymore? I mean, and remember, I work for these newspapers. I devoted my life to them, but I don't give a damn if someone is in the sun or the Daily Mail anymore or appears on gb news that's irrelevant i don't need those platforms to be able to choose who i can hear from because i'm going to choose myself whether i want to watch katie's video on x or uh tommy's interview on you know rebel news or wherever he or maya to see or whichever platform he happens to be uh speaking on so basically the game is up for the mainstream media, and that will help lead to that change. But it's not over. I mean, this is still...
Dan Wootton:
[32:32] An ongoing fight in the UK. We are nowhere near as developed in the US when it comes to this independent media ecosystem, which drives the agenda. I mean, it was just fascinating and really inspiring, actually, looking at the Republican conference and seeing who's alongside Trump. And it's Dan Bongino and Tucker Carlson, and who's broadcasting there, Megyn Kelly and Russell Brand and the other people who are important Republicans want to speak to. We're not at that point yet. Politicians here still think that to spread your message, you've got to go on LBC or the BBC. But I have a really strong belief that that is going to change over the next five years.
Hearts of Oak:
[33:17] I agree 100 percent. And we are following the US and taking their lead and learning from them.
Hearts of Oak:
[33:23] I will be much better for that. And some of the issues you touched on, immigration issue, I think the Tories basically went to the same economic school as Rachel Reeves in terms of working out the numbers coming in. And then you've got the hate speech, criminalization of memes. And this is one thing that Elon Musk has got involved at the utter shock of people posting things online. And yet sex offenders seem to get off with community service. Do you want to just touch on that to give our US viewers a kind of highlighter window to understand what we face in the UK?
Dan Wootton:
[33:59] Well, I mean, again, US viewers will not understand this because with the First Amendment, none of this would be allowed to go on. It is utterly appalling and disturbing what is happening here. So Alison Pearson, who's a good friend of mine, she was on my show last week. She is, I believe, Britain's best mainstream newspaper columnist. She writes for the Daily Telegraph, but she's one of the few people in the legacy media who challenges the agenda time and again. And as a result, she finds herself pilloried by the establishment. But a couple of weeks ago on Remembrance Sunday, and I remember she texted me on the day saying, I can't believe what has just happened. Two police officers turned up at her house because of a post on X from a year ago where she had described some Jew haters as Jew haters. I mean, these were people who were members of Imran Khan's political party in Pakistan who have a long history of anti-Semitism and Alison had slightly confused
Dan Wootton:
[35:04] which political grouping they were a part of. She thought to begin with, they were part of the pro Hamas demonstrations, which were going on a lot at the time.
Dan Wootton:
[35:13] So she deleted the tweet, but that was on a factual basis. She had made a very small error. She hadn't said anything in any way that could be considered incitement to racial hatred. Yet that's what the police, three police forces in the UK, spent a year investigating. Now they have, after an international outcry, including lots of coverage from Elon Musk on X, dropped that, but it took a long time for this to become public. And remember, this is going on every single day in the UK. 60 people every single day in the UK are hounded because of something that they have said online, which is legal. Now, then you look at the rest of the justice system, and absolutely your point stands. And there are some horrifying examples of it, which again, the mainstream media wants to overlook. So a Muslim man called Muhammad Hassan, I would describe him as an extremist, was at a petrol station in Bradford, and he was caught doing this on CCTV. So there was no question about whether he was guilty or not. He spotted three fellow Asian women at the petrol station who were in Western dress, who had assimilated into English society.
Dan Wootton:
[36:36] He physically destroyed them. He beat them up on this petrol station forecourt. One of the Asian women, he put her head into the car and he smashed it for 45 seconds. This was all captured on CCTV. He is a woman beater. He beat up three women.
Dan Wootton:
[36:59] Muhammad Hassan did not spend one day in prison he was let off then you have Hugh Edwards the face of the BBC the guy who announced the death of Queen Elizabeth II, guilty of making child sex abuse images.
Dan Wootton:
[37:24] And being in possession of hundreds of these things He did not spend a day in prison. So you have pedophiles and women beaters being released. Well, not just being released, actually, never spending a day behind bars. Then to make room for people in prison who literally posted on Facebook and X after what happened in Southport where...
Dan Wootton:
[37:53] Three young, beautiful girls were butchered to death at a Taylor Swift dance class, a crime which horrified the whole country, and which we still don't know the truth about for a whole load of reasons.
Dan Wootton:
[38:07] People who posted something maybe a bit unartful maybe a bit inelegant in some cases probably they even went too far but who made a post on x or facebook over that time are in jail peter in some cases for well over two years so take the case of julie sweeney she's a grandmother and a carer for her husband. She has lived a completely faultless, quiet life in the north of England. After seeing what happened on the Southport massacre, she made one post to a Facebook group of 5,000 people. She soon regretted it. She realized she had overstepped the mark, but she certainly didn't, in my opinion, incite any specific violence against anyone. She has been locked up for over two years for a facebook post lucy connolly a housewife who is married to a conservative party local counselor also in jail for over two years for a post on x after the southport massacre meanwhile and this is actually true and elon musk sometimes points out these stories and people say this can't be true it is true people have been released on the street who are hardened criminals in some cases murderers to make room.
Dan Wootton:
[39:34] For these criminals in prison. And it's all part of, I believe, a campaign by this Labour government against the white working classes of the UK. They want to terrify the white working classes into silence.
Hearts of Oak:
[39:48] And that's why I'm struggling to understand how you change this from within,
Hearts of Oak:
[39:53] because that makes people extremely angry. And we saw the Southport, the demonstrations, whatever you call them, people expressing anger and feeling trapped in a system the police don't seem to be there to help you and i grew up i'm sure you did dan trusting the police trusting the courts that was part of the system that kept us safe now in many ways they seem to be the enemy in how you see them prosecuting how you see people who have been arrested yeah and then you look politically and you have silence from the conservative government um and you've got five or four mps so where we are at the moment so it's understandable that we don't have a first and second amendments we don't have freedom of speech or the right to bear arms. Therefore, oh, what do we do? We can't even meme. So I kind of, you understand where that frustration comes and boils over people thinking, actually, I don't know if the system will work, but you still want to hold within that. And you still believe that actually it is possible to get to where we want to get using the system.
Dan Wootton:
[40:55] Well, I think it's the only choice that we have, But I do think there will be a shifting of the Overton window over the next five years, and Nigel Farage and Reform UK are going to have to fill that space, because if they don't, someone else will.
Dan Wootton:
[41:13] So I would like, and I do support Reform UK, not as a member or anything like that. I'm completely independent. I'm not a member of any political party, but in terms of my personal vote, I switched my allegiance from the Conservative Party to Reform UK at the last election. So I've given them my vote and I want them to be the force to do it. But if they can't provide that, then another force will come along.
Dan Wootton:
[41:42] And right now, I would say they're dipping their toe in the water. They're doing some brilliant things, but they're not going far enough. So, for example, Nigel Farage has said, we'll get rid of all of these hate crime laws that saw Alison Pearson targeted by police. Great, you're dipping your toe in the water, but that's not enough. That's not enough. There has to be a First Amendment free speech, our equivalent. It obviously wouldn't be called the First Amendment because we don't have a constitution in the first place, but there has to be the equivalent of that. It's not enough just to say, oh, you're going to get rid of these hate crime laws. No, no, no. You have to enshrine free speech in British law. So there's a whole load of areas where I think Reform UK are dipping their toe in the water. But remember, we're entering a changed world now. And I do think Donald Trump will send out a lot of inspiration about what is politically acceptable. And we've seen that change from Nigel Farage, even in the past few weeks. He received quite a lot of criticism a couple of months ago for ruling out the concept of mass deportations altogether. And I can already sense that after Trump's election, now he's changing his rhetoric on that issue. So.
Dan Wootton:
[42:52] I mean, we knew that Trump's victory was essential for saving the Western world. And I guess, look, there's not much hope at the moment in the UK. So there are a couple of people that we can put a lot of hope in. One is Trump and his administration, because it's going to have to change some of the dark forces and the globalist forces that are doing some terrible things. To the uk and then of course the other is musk so you know we've got to find hope from somewhere at the moment because otherwise this is going to be a very bleak five years do i think it can change within the system yes i do actually but it's going to need a true people's revolt and that's going to be one of the messages on my show today look two million of us have signed this petition imagine if two million of us joined a political force you know we'd be the biggest political force in,
Dan Wootton:
[43:50] british history so there's hope i think and.
Hearts of Oak:
[43:56] And just to finish off on that point as well i think that hope comes from and i would certainly feel very much like calvin well let's just let's just burn this thing down let's call for revolution but that doesn't always end very well and you're left
Dan Wootton:
[44:09] With no how's it gonna work that's the problem how is how is that going to work i think, I think we have to try and make this work through democratic processes, but that doesn't mean working through the system, if that makes sense. The system has to be smashed.
Hearts of Oak:
[44:34] No, I agree. And looking at what's happened in the US with Trump, the most important election, I think, in most of our lifetimes because of what we faced, and not only for a country, but for the world. And then looking at what's happening, I mean, you've got the Freedom Party just came top in the Luka election last night in Austria. Of course, they're not allowed to form a government, even though they're the winning party. You've got the election coming up in Germany. Then you've got Orban and Maloney, and you've got...
Dan Wootton:
[45:03] Or Le Pen in France. I know. Who they're trying to, you know, again, ban from running through lawfare, which won't work.
Hearts of Oak:
[45:13] It won't work, but as they're trying to do in Germany on the AFD. But I think those two pressures for, because I haven't been very hopeful for a while, but actually I think those two pressures could lead to something in the UK. The UK will have to up its act and pressure like that from both sides, I think, will produce good leadership that we can move forward. And to me, actually, the electoral success of Trump and the electoral success of populist parties across Europe, I think, shows that there is hope for the UK.
Dan Wootton:
[45:48] Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, look, there are certain things in terms of our setup that does make it very difficult, but these are extraordinary times. No one believed that Donald Trump would get through the Republican primary process.
Dan Wootton:
[46:05] No one believes that a Le Pen will ever be able to be president of France. Well, let's see, because I think as things look at the moment she probably will be so to smash the two-party system in the uk would be a massive ask but these do feel like historic times yeah.
Hearts of Oak:
[46:27] I i agree dan i appreciate your time people can obviously follow um outspoken every monday to friday at 5 p.m uk time or midday eastern uh find look at his twitter account or x shows how old i am uh to find it there or even go directly to his website dan wouldn't on outspoken.com dan wouldn't outspoken.com sign up to that and find out everything that happens um and i guess dan wouldn't outspoken or dan wouldn't i guess is the handle for your youtube channel also
Dan Wootton:
[46:59] Yeah dan wouldn't outspoken and outspoken is also on now because um i have been looking for a free speech platform and i think sub stack is the best of those outside of x obviously i i'm on it it's very very strong on x but i post a lot of my long form things and we do an uncancelled.