Les Binet and Sarah Carter are planning royalty. Starting out at the iconic BMP, the agency which evolved over time to become adam&eve today, they are the planners behind many famous campaigns. Not least John Lewis which lasted an impressive 14 years. A few years ago their popular myth busting column turned into the well known book ‘How Not to Plan’ taking conventional wisdom and turning it on its head. I catch up with the dynamic duo to pick their considerable brains on the topics they think marketers least understand.

Talking points from this episode:

The real godfather of effectiveness
How John Lewis changed Christmas
Les & Sarah pick a favourite ad
Why vignette ads are a cop out
What the John Lewis econometrics reveals about the campaign
Why you should make people feel something not show them feeling
Jon discovers the Long & the Short of it
The best way to really upset Les
That famous key visual
Can you ever achieve both long & short at the same time
Why consumers don’t give a s**t
How myth busting inspired the book
Being turned down by Marketing Week
Why there are more P’s than Promotion
How to involve planners early
The BMP Philosophy of planning
How not to get caught Short
Why 60% of campaign results are long term
How not to be consistent
Knowing what to change and when to change it
What advertisers can learn from designers
A little plug for Orlando’s fluent device work
It’s only advertising and no-one died
The case for animals and music
How not to make sense
How not to change your pricing
Why EPOS data switched spend from communication to price promotion
Digital attribution is the new price promotion
The more detailed the measurement the worse the marketing has got
Jon shares his only Effie case study
How not to be different
Why how you say something matters more than what you say
Les takes down the idea of loyalty
The one topic which wasn’t covered in the book
Finding things to get angry about

FROM DELOITTE AND FASTCO WORKS: From Byline to Bottom Line - A conversation with Deloitte’s Deb Golden and Mansueto Ventures’ Stephanie Mehta