This episode was recorded on January 11, 2021.

Matt Ridley and I discuss, among other topics, economic optimism, trade through the reciprocity of nations, enlightened self-interest, virtues relation to trade, feeding nine billion people, the triumphs of cities, escape of Malthusian population trap, and more.

Matt Ridley is a British best-selling author (The Origins of Virtue, The Rational Optimist, How Innovation Works, and many more) who is best known for his writings on science, the environment, and economics. He is also a well-respected journalist, businessman, and member of The House of Lords in the United Kingdom.

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