Katherine Stewart, an investigative journalist and author of "Money, Lies, and God," dives into the alarming rise of Christian nationalism and its threats to American democracy. She explores Project 2025, examining its implications for governance and Trump’s relationship with this movement. The discussion also highlights the dangerous blend of wealth inequality, disinformation, and authoritarian tendencies. Finally, they address the asymmetry in media accountability, investigating how biases shape public trust and dialogue in today’s political landscape.
The convergence of Christian nationalism, oligarchs, and reactionary forces exemplifies a coordinated effort to dismantle democratic institutions in America.
The significant concentration of wealth among elites fuels anti-democratic initiatives, as financially motivated individuals unite against liberal principles through projects like Project 2025.
Deep dives
Understanding Anti-Democratic Movements
A significant concern highlighted is the intersection of various reactionary forces in American politics, particularly those tied to anti-democratic movements. These forces include Christian nationalists, oligarchs, and reactionary groups, which often lack ideological unity but align in opposing liberal ideals. This coalition not only seeks to dismantle democratic institutions but is also orchestrated by influential individuals and organizations who bankroll these agendas, profoundly shaping the political landscape. A clear example of this is the political rhetoric surrounding Donald Trump, who personifies the conflicting ideologies and interests of these groups while also fueling divisions within political discourse.
The Role of Wealth and Influence
The accumulation and concentration of wealth among elite individuals have destabilized American democracy, creating a class of political players who leverage their financial resources to support anti-democratic initiatives. Wealthy benefactors from diverse backgrounds—evangelical, Catholic, or even atheistic—have united under a common goal to undermine liberal institutions, as seen in their support for projects like Project 2025. Notably, this project represents a reactionary agenda that seeks to reshape governance in ways that benefit elite interests, while the individuals behind it often disavow their connections to its implications. This merging of distinct ideological groups shows how the intersection of wealth, religion, and politics contributes to a broader agenda threatening democratic values.
Christian Nationalism and Its Implications
Christian nationalism is framed as an ideology rather than a religious movement; it promotes the idea that America should function as a Christian nation guided by select biblical interpretations. This political dynamic is organized and led by influential groups that mobilize their grassroots following for political action, often emphasizing a narrative that portrays them as defenders of the true American family. While not all Christians identify with this movement, its influence is significant, as evidenced by the coordination of pastoral networks that encourage voting in alignment with anti-democratic candidates. Ultimately, the rise of Christian nationalism poses a challenge to the core principles of democracy by shifting political conversations toward identity and ideology rather than addressing systemic socio-economic issues facing the broader population.
Sam Harris speaks with Katherine Stewart about her new book, Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. They discuss Project 2025, Christian nationalism, white supremacy, whether the backlash against wokeness has been overblown, the asymmetric standards between right-wing and left-wing media, Trump’s appeal to evangelicals, wealth inequality, political ideology in public schools, and other topics.
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