AoE #33 - Identity, Insight & the Art of Letting Go with Jamie Smart

🎙️Episode 33: Identity, Insight & the Art of Letting Go with Jamie Smart 🎧

Welcome to episode 33 of Agents of Everything!

In this episode, I am delighted to be joined by Jamie Smart—someone I’ve known now for over 15 years and whose work has profoundly evolved since the days when he was a leading figure in the UK NLP scene. We cover a lot of ground in this conversation, from the nature of identity and the courage it takes to live authentically, to the deeper intelligence behind creation and change.

Jamie shares the story of walking away from a successful NLP business to follow a new direction rooted in a deeper understanding of how experience is created. We talk about the push-pull between structure and intuition, and what it means to show up in the world as who you really are—even when that feels risky or counterintuitive.

This episode is a blend of personal story, deep insight, and practical wisdom. If you're interested in creating real change—whether in your own life, in your work, or in the world—there’s a lot here to chew on.

In this conversation, we explore:

* What it really means to follow your passion and inner compass

* The spiritual dimension of identity and creativity

* “Circumambulating the self” and coming into alignment

* Letting go of what once worked to make space for what wants to emerge

* The role of fear and the necessity of courage

* The connection between Milton Erickson, the Three Principles, and insight-based transformation

* Why harmonizing with life might be more powerful than trying to control it

We also touch on influences like Carl Jung, Steve Jobs, Joseph Jaworski, and Vadim Zeland, and share our thoughts on how to create and contribute from a place that’s genuinely alive.

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🔍 Episode Contents (In Deeper):

1. Origins and Early Influences

* Jamie reflects on meeting James at an NLP practice group in Letchworth (circa 2008–2009).

* Jamie was a prominent NLP trainer at the time; James recalls Jamie advising him to invest equally in business and NLP skills—advice Jamie now questions.

* Discussion of Jamie’s major pivot from NLP to a new direction focused on the principles of mind, thought, and consciousness, marked by his 2010 event The Secret’s So Great, Where’s My Ferrari?

2. Passion, Authenticity, and the Fallacy of “How-To” Models

* Jamie speaks about valuing passion, intuition, and individuality over prescriptive "how-to" formulas.

* Emphasis on discovering one’s own unique way of expressing and delivering value to the world.

* James shares his own oscillation between non-linear, intuitive engagement and more strategic, tactical approaches.

3. The Concept of the Self

* Exploration of Jung’s idea of the “circumambulation of the self”—the ego circling an ineffable core self.

* Jamie expands on “who you really are” as consciousness itself, beyond ego or personality, and refers to the concept of the noetic sense.

* Reference to developmental psychology and the Rouge Test to illustrate how identity is constructed and how we become identified with an external image.

4. Spirituality and Practical Life

* James shares a journey from atheism to a more grounded sense of spirituality, defined as the feeling of being part of something greater.

* Jamie distinguishes between ego-driven striving and aligned creation driven by deeper being.

* Discussion of Steve Jobs’ quote about following your heart and intuition as a guide to personal evolution.

5. State of Mind and Productivity

* Jamie cites a Harvard Business Review study showing a strong correlation between leaders’ state of mind and their productivity.

* Suggests spiritual insight (not necessarily framed as such) leads to greater calm, clarity, and effectiveness in action.

6. Creating from a Deeper Place

* James describes his past creative process with music as an example of intuitive, unfolding creation.

* Jamie shares how his team co-created a powerful, aligned vision by letting go of individual ego and allowing deeper intelligence to emerge.

* The idea that true impact comes from aligning ego and personality with the deeper self.

7. Courage and Letting Go

* Acknowledgment that following one’s heart and showing up authentically often requires courage because it involves facing fear and letting go of old strategies that once worked.

* Reference to Taoist wisdom: “To profit, invest in loss”—highlighting the need to release the known to discover something greater.

8. NLP, Erickson, and the Three Principles

* Discussion of how Ericksonian hypnosis and the Three Principles point to similar truths about identity, change, and innate well-being.

* Jamie shares a metaphor of “jumping off the raft” to describe transformational work—helping clients step beyond their current map of reality.

* Shared appreciation for Milton Erickson’s ability to meet clients at the level of their identity, embodying deep acceptance and presence.

9. The Creative Dance with Reality

* Both guests agree that transformation and creation require attunement, listening, and allowing rather than control.

* Reference to Vadim Zeland’s idea of the “soul’s frail”—a unique energetic signature or destiny—and Joseph Jaworski’s Source as a map for co-creative leadership.

Closing Thoughts

* Jamie underlines the value of understanding both how experience is created and who we really are as game-changing realizations.

* He shares where listeners can find his work, including his books, podcasts (Get Clarity and Thriving Coaches), and website.