Ep. 188 (Part 2 of 2) | Dr. Sally Adnams Jones has pioneered the field of art therapy as an agent of transformation and healing, choosing to work particularly with people living with no economic infrastructure: refugees, and victims of natural disasters, genocide, war, pandemics, and more. What Sally has found is that creating art within a community works miracles for the dispossessed and traumatized, in that it provides an embodied, practical method of engendering feelings of pride, a sense of belonging, finding one’s voice, and perceiving the future as something one can affect and shape. In fact, this work is applicable to everyone everywhere—it is in accessing our creativity that we come to ask, “How do we start to build the world we need?” An Integral Taoist, Sally shares her perspective on the yin and yang of creativity, explaining that ultimately, creativity is emergence working through the human body.

At the heart of Integral Taoism is an understanding that the nature of emergence itself is to become aware of your polarity and integrate it. The more you do that, the more creative you become. The discussion transitions from the dance of polarity in creativity to how the polarities of yin and yang are playing out in politics today. Sally is a Canadian therapist and exceptionally well informed about politics—here we gain a perspective on current U.S. – Canadian relations and world politics that is revelatory. Recorded May 29, 2025.

“Every single Canadian is deeply traumatized right now.”

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

How the movement between parts and whole, yin and yang, plays out in politics (01:21)
The threat to Canada’s sovereignty, what Canada is doing in response, and Canada’s unifying, integral leader (03:12)
How did it feel when Trump started talking about annexing Canada? (06:44)
Under the Trump regime, the U.S. has become an arms dealer (10:21)
How Sally’s growing up in South Africa under constant threat of civil war informs her views of fascism and the reversal of the American ideal of democracy (13:12)
Advice for political resisters: establish a line that cannot be crossed (18:54)
Coordinated resistance to the U.S. from external sources (24:14)
Global politics, macroeconomics, and the rise of authoritarianism (27:36)
Misinformation and the radicalization of young white men through the fourth estate (30:22)
New challenges we face with fascism, and why American tech bros think Western Civilization is under threat (34:54)
The future: who has control of the skies? (39:49)
What is the most strategic thing one can do? (41:16)
How do you stay grounded and balanced? Learning self-regulation, connecting with nature (43:56)

Resources & References – Part 2

Sally Adnams Jones, Art-Making with Refugees and Survivors: Creative and Transformative Responses to Trauma After Natural Disasters, War and Other Crises
Sally’s website: sallyadnamsjones.com
Sally’s podcast: Radical Emergence
Gandhi and Non-violence
Nelson Mandela: The Freedom Fighter (YouTube documentary)
Sinclair Lewis, It Can’t Happen Here
Frank Zappa & the Mothers of Invention, “It Can’t Happen Here”
Great Replacement conspiracy theory

---

Dr. Sally Adnams Jones is an Expressive Arts Therapist, Psycho-Spiritual Educator, podcaster, writer, and artist. A South African-Canadian, Sally lives on Vancouver Island, amongst the old-growth forest, owls, elk, and wild lupines. Her interests are in human development; the phenomenology of creativity; the emergence of intelligent, natural systems; her grandchildren; and a healthy future for all.

Sally has developed a theory called Integral Taoism that explores polarity as a cosmic principle of emergence, including through human sexuality, power dynamics, and creative flow. You can find her at her website, sallyadnamsjones.com; her podcast, radicalemergence.org; on YouTube at Dr Sally Adnams Jones; or read her book, Art-Making with Refugees and Survivors: Creative and Transformative Responses to Trauma After Natural Disasters, War and Other Crises.

---

Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell

Breaking Up Is Hard To Do