Making Sense with Sam Harris - Subscriber Content

#384 - Stress Testing Our Democracy

Sep 23, 2024

Barton Gellman, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and election integrity expert, delves into the vulnerabilities of American democracy. He shares insights from war games he's conducted, simulating responses to authoritarian threats. They discuss the implications of voter identification laws, the challenges posed by political control over election certification, and the logs of historical events like the Bush-Gore election. Gellman also examines the potential for unrest following upcoming elections and the impact of Trumpism on the Republican Party.

01:27:07

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Barton Gellman

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Quick takeaways

Barton Gellman's Democracy Futures Project highlights the need for proactive measures to safeguard democracy against potential authoritarian threats in America.

The war games revealed a significant confusion among state governors regarding their legal boundaries, emphasizing the importance of understanding their powers during federal crises.

Concerns over election integrity showcase how politically motivated claims of fraud can undermine trust in democratic processes, particularly affecting marginalized populations.

Deep dives

Democracy Futures Project Initiatives

Barton Gelman discusses his shift from journalism to proactive engagement in safeguarding democracy through the Democracy Futures Project at the Brennan Center for Justice. This initiative conducted tabletop exercises to simulate responses to potential authoritarian threats in America, involving over 175 former officials and leaders. The exercises explored scenarios where a president with authoritarian tendencies could manipulate federal powers to suppress dissent and ensure control. By gaming out various responses and consequences, the project aimed to uncover vulnerabilities in the existing political framework and identify potential measures for resistance.

Intro

2min

Simulating Democracy's Challenges

10min

Navigating Democratic Challenges

19min

Election Integrity at Risk

22min

Unpacking the Soros Narrative

6min

Political Discourse and Trumpism

16min

The Risks of Autocratic Governance and Political Loyalty

5min

The Transformation of Conservative Institutions Under Trumpism

2min

Defending Democracy in the Face of Authoritarianism

4min

Share this episode: https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/384-stress-testing-our-democracy

Sam Harris speaks with Barton Gellman about election integrity and the safeguarding of American democracy. They discuss the war games he's run to test our response to an authoritarian president, using federal troops against American citizens, the difference between laws and norms, state powers to resist the federal government, voter identification and election integrity, political control over election certifications, the Bush-Gore election, the Electoral Count Reform Act, the prospect of public unrest after the November election, January 6th, George Soros, the "good people on both sides" calumny against Trump, what happens to Trump and Trumpism if Harris wins in November, the presidential debate with Harris, the authoritarian potential of a second Trump term, Project 2025, and other topics.

Barton Gellman is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author. He currently serves as Senior Advisor at the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law. Previously, he was a staff writer at The Atlantic and The Washington Post. He is the author of Dark Mirror: Edward Snowden and the American Surveillance State and Angler: The Cheney Vice Presidency, for which he won the Los Angeles Times Book Prize.

Website: bartongellman.com

Twitter: @bartongellman

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